ISPs kicking routers off internet?

Discussion in 'Home Networking' started by Rob, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. Rob

    Rob Guest

    Hey there,

    Want to know: is there some signal an ISP can send to your router that
    will disable it? Some ISPs don't want their users sharing the
    internet, and I've heard rumours that there is actually some sort of
    signal they can send out to disable the internet on their routers.

    If so, this may be happening to me: I have a wireless router set up so
    I can have the internet in my living room, but every now and again
    (about 3 or 4 times a week), I loose internet completely, and the
    router is unable to reconnect. It gets some error like "cant get ip
    address" or something. The only solution is to unplug the router &
    modem and plug them back in.

    Anyone else ever heard of this? Any details you can point me to on
    this mysterious signal? Any details I can look up? Any solution to
    stop the drops anyone can offer?

    Rob, Jul 18, 2006
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  2. Rob

    L83R Guest

    in message
    If you are DSL, you may have a problem I encountered,
    in that I was at the exteme limit of the service (about
    12,000 feet I believe). When upping my dsl speed, the modem
    started erroring out and resetting. When they dropped my speed
    back down, the problem went away. The explanation was that
    by doubling my speed, the errors to the modem increased
    exponentially. DSL does not care what or how much you
    downoad, as it is a dedicated line... many of the cable companies
    are now limiting uploads to a gigabyte a month or whatever.
    If you are on cable, that may be a possibility, but as you are
    resetting so often, I would doubt that to be the problem.
    L83R, Jul 18, 2006
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  3. Rob

    Jerry Attic Guest

    Could be their server screwing up or maybe you should try updating the
    firmware on your router. If it's their server, not much you do about it.

    Jerry Attic, Jul 18, 2006
  4. Rob

    Margolotta Guest

    Er, not true - I don't know about the US, but here in the UK many DSL
    providers *DO* limit downloads (e.g. BT's basic package (£14.99pcm, IIRC)
    caps users at 2GBpcm - this is true for many ISPs in this country.) Even
    those packages which state 'unlimited' are usually subject to a 'Fair Use'
    policy (FUP) - for example my ISP lets me download as much as I like between
    8am and 6pm during the working week, but caps downloads between 6pm and
    midnight and weekends to 50GBpcm. I have never encountered a limit on uploads
    but, then, I don't upload all that much (despite my ISP's assertions to the
    contrary - the other day they accused me of uploading over half a terabyte in
    a week - pure bullshit - even if I left a P2P app running 24/7 I'd nowhere
    approach that in so short a time, I wouldn't have thought).

    Though, as you say, I would have thought uploads would be capped, otherwise
    people could upload anything and everything.
    Margolotta, Jul 18, 2006
  5. Rob

    Roger Guest

    ISPs calculate both uploads and downloads into your useage limit.

    If you download 2GB and upload 1GB, that would total 3GB of your monthly
    Roger, Jul 18, 2006
  6. Rob

    Doz Guest

    Sounds like your router is failing to get a new IP off the ISP's system..

    Maybe if you supplied more info we could help you out a little more.
    Eg. Make, model of router.. how it's wired up etc.
    Doz, Jul 18, 2006
  7. Rob

    Leythos Guest

    The ISP can get into your DSL/Cable modem and disable your router if
    they provided it, they can also disable your connection at other

    I've had ISP's disable users devices (ISP owned) because they were
    Leythos, Jul 18, 2006
  8. They could DOS it I guess, but that'd be fairly radical not to say
    probably illegal. Otherwise, no.
    TBH I've never heard of one that actually cared, despite contractual
    notes - they're selling you fixed bandwidth by and large, they don't
    care what you do with it, inside their acceptable usage policy.
    Two possibilities: you have a flakey connection (ie your cable/phone
    line is just a bit too poor quality) or you have a flakey router. My
    old router started doing this, turned out to be a duff power supply.
    Look out for patterns eg high usage, high temperatures, same time
    every day - could be the ISPs server busying out due to excess of
    students / schoolkids etc...
    Mark McIntyre, Jul 18, 2006
  9. Rob

    Duane Arnold Guest

    Users should buy their own router and not accept the one the ISP owns or
    can control. They should get one that is approved to run on the IPS's

    At one time, I was going to use DSL for hosting a WEB site. They hit me
    with we have our router that we provide. I got on the phone with tech
    support and found out what type/specs on the router that was needed to
    connect to the ISP's network and got the information.

    I never did buy the router and moved on to something else.

    Duane :)
    Duane Arnold, Jul 18, 2006
  10. Well, yes and no and maybe. A couple of possibilities:

    1) You are using BitTorrent or some other file-stealing program, and
    your router can't handle the number of requested open sockets, so it
    falls over. Well-nown problem, just starting to get some press, and
    manufacturers are starting to deal with the problem with firmware
    updates. Make sure you have the latest firmware, and tune your client
    to reduce open sockets.

    2) Some routers will fall over if sent particular packets, so someone
    ould be sending your router one of these Pings Of Death. Unlikely to
    be your ISP, though. Check for the latest firmware...

    3) Your router (or your ISP's router) isn't properly negotiating a
    DHCP renewal. Check your firmware.

    4) Your ISP _is_ somehow detecting that you are doing Something Wrong,
    and is disconnecting you. If this is true it shouldn't come back with
    a power cycle, so I'd give it a low probability.

    We need some more information:

    Manufacturer, model, hardware version, and firmware of your router.

    Name and location of your ISP, cable, DSL, fiber, wireless?

    ISP DHCP lease time (from the status page on your router).

    Router DHCP lease time from ipconfig/all
    William P.N. Smith, Jul 18, 2006
  11. Rob

    Meat Plow Guest

    If your router can do a MAC clone, use that and they won't know the
    Meat Plow, Jul 18, 2006
  12. Rob

    Leythos Guest

    They could still disable your access to the internet, even with your own
    router, as they can just block access from your device at their
    Leythos, Jul 18, 2006
  13. Rob

    CWatters Guest

    You don't say who your ISP is but I think this problem isn't so common now.

    No problem with Plusnet as far as I can tell.
    CWatters, Jul 18, 2006
  14. Rob

    Jerry Park Guest

    Do you have a dynamic IP address from your ISP? Could be a simple matter
    of the ISP breaking the connection in order to assign a new dynamic IP.
    When I was using Charter for internet access, there were times the
    connection would fail and it seemed to have originated from the ISP in
    order to assign a new IP address.

    If that is the case, you may have to restart your router in order to get
    it to release its old IP address.
    Jerry Park, Jul 18, 2006
  15. Does your ISP charge by the number of connected computers? If so,
    they might have a reason to do this. However, if they don't count
    computers, why would they care if you're using a router?

    The closest approximation was when Comcast and others wanted to charge
    an extra $6/month for each connected computer for "residential" class
    service. The NAT routers were assumed to be able to hide the presence
    of additional computers. However, some research into sequence numbers
    and traffic patterns showed that the number of machines behind the
    firewall could be deduced. Comcast apparently used these and possibly
    other methods to estimate the number of computers in use. They then
    turned over the numbers to an obnoxious phone pool that called each
    customer and demanded the extra $6 per month per machine. Consumer
    reaction was predictable and the plan died after about 2 weeks.

    Anyway, if your ISP wanted to retaliate against your sharing your
    connection with the neighbors, they would probably persue legal
    remedies and not technical measures.
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 18, 2006
  16. Rob

    James Guest

    Unplug both the router and xDSL modem from power. Enable the s/w firewall on
    the PC. Connect the PC directly to the modem. Power up the modem. Configure
    the PC connection if required.

    Monitor the connection for 24-48 hours. If the condition persists, call MTS.
    James, Jul 18, 2006
  17. Rob

    Steve Berry Guest

    Now that is interesting. Never ceases to amaze me how stupid ISPs are
    sometimes. Fairly pointless exercise number 5243.
    Did no-one think that Customers would "depart the ship" when they found out
    One way to dump your Customers off to the opposition I guess.

    Steve Berry, Jul 18, 2006
  18. It hasn't change much over the years. The current Comcast Terms of
    Use limit their own "home networking" offering to 5 computers. See
    the first section of:
    The Subscriber Agreement is hereby modified solely to permit you
    to use the Service in connection with the multiple connection of
    up to five (5) personal computing devices within your Premises
    to the Service (the "Comcast Home Networking Service") etc...

    I wonder what happens if you plug in the 6th computer? Ka-boom?
    Jeff Liebermann, Jul 18, 2006
  19. Rob

    Gaz Guest

    You and about 75% of other router users. Most of the routers available use a
    conexant chipset and are, to be frank, pants. It is very very common to have
    to do this, and nothing to do with the isp.

    Gaz, Jul 18, 2006
  20. Rob

    Gaz Guest

    That depends entirely on the particular ISP, some have extremely convulated
    means of calculating usage, which seems to change on a month by month basis.

    Gaz, Jul 18, 2006
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