Is MCSE worth pursuing?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Steve Young, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. Steve Young

    nrf Guest

    Right, exactly, so if that's the general principle upon which you are
    expanding, then one would simply have to accept that some athletes would be
    admitted unfairly. My point simply is, you can't really say that it is
    "unfair" to bend the rules for athletes but it is "fair" to bend the rules
    for other people. Either it is unfair to bend the rules for anybody, or
    fairness is not the desired end goal.
    Hey don't get me wrong, I understand that point also. But first of all, I
    would contend that obviously it isn't all about money. The guy who got in
    because he's a great charity-worker doesn't translate into a lot of future
    money for the school. Same could be said for lots of other factors that go
    into the admissions process. If the general principle is that colleges
    admit based on what helps their school overall, then I could certainly make
    the argument that strong sports teams raise the profile of the school and
    thereby increase the community spirit of the students and the alumni, etc.
    etc. If the general principle is that colleges want money for their
    general programs, then, yes, athletics is out, but so should a lot of
    factors that are considered today. What I'm saying is that I find it
    difficult to find a good general principle that excludes athletics yet
    includes everything else that seems to be included today. You might say
    that it's the pressure that makes athletics special. But I would disagree -
    I believe that pressure can and does come from a wide variety of sources,
    not just from the athletic department. In particular, pressure from the
    university administrators was used historically to intentionally disciminate
    against admitting lots of Jews.
    Obviously so. But what I am saying is that this pressure comes from lots of
    sources, not just from the athletic department. In theory, I would
    absolutely support an admissions board that was hermetically sealed from
    pressure from all sources, athletic or whatever. For example, I know for a
    fact that if you happen to be a son of a faculty member or a university
    administrator, you will get very strong preference. I can absolutely see an
    order coming from high saying, in effect, "Grant admission to the son of Mr.
    X, because Mr. X is a bigshot around here". Is this not also pressure?
    Would this also not be equally resented?
    nrf, Oct 30, 2003
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  2. Steve Young

    Baz'noid Guest

    Sounds like nrf has had a little trouble being accepted into college and
    feels that athletes have something to do with why, rather than his own
    ability. From a UK point of view, a lot of American colleges tend to be
    oversubscribed - the athletes are automatically accepted on sports
    scholarships (if they're lucky) and relevant courses, filling in the rest of
    their timetable afterwards. If you've not been accepted into college in the
    first place, i can guarantee it's not to do with athletes or congressmen.

    Baz'noid, Oct 30, 2003
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  3. Steve Young

    nrf Guest

    Actually, I would think that your accusation would be more true of
    flycaster, as after all, he started this whole subthread, not me. Or
    perhaps mxsmaniac, who denigrates the value of college. Yet you're not
    getting on their case, why not?
    nrf, Oct 30, 2003
  4. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Only because the hard four years are for a different occupation. Some
    people don't want to work as engineers.
    Right now, the most cost-effective route is no degree at all, in many
    Mainly for legal reasons. They do it sometimes in IT, which does not
    require specific credentials for engineering.
    The same job pays the same salary, whether the candidate has a
    liberal-arts degree or an engineering degree.
    I'm not going to _tell_ them to do anything. They will make their own
    decisions. I'll be happy to discuss the potential pros and cons of
    study with them, however.
    That in most cases it doesn't matter, so he need not study hard, unless
    he feels that he is getting something useful out of it (i.e., if he
    feels that it helps him to learn, certainly study may be justified, but
    if it's busy work, he can ignore it).
    Why twice, and why aren't you doing it now?
    Into the people who are actually managing the positions that interest
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  5. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    I'm not.
    It requires more effort to get.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  6. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  7. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    No, it happens when you don't make any special effort to label anyone.
    I generally reply to posts on an individual basis, with only a very
    vague awareness of the context of previous posts.
    I don't have to deliberately try. That happens automatically.
    No, I don't. None of those things is relevant to the topics under
    discussion, and so I don't ask about them.
    True, but my opinions are consistent, and my writing style is both
    distinctive and consistent, so I can easily spot when I'm being
    misquoted. Upon verification, I've always been right.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  8. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Smart companies are a minority, but so are smart people, and this is not
    coincidence. Thus, there are enough places at smart companies for smart
    That most people only know how their own interviews go.
    I would say that it will be sufficient.
    Probably, since everyone seems to insist on much longer estimates than I
    Newbies to every profession complain about that.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  9. Steve Young

    Charlie Self Guest

    Baz'noid states:
    To a degree. IIRC, they still need some passing SAT numbers, though not high
    Can you? Check out all the service acadamies. Unless daddy won a Medal of
    Honor, you need a politician's recommendations for most entrances.

    Charlie Self
    "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be
    common." Satchel Paige
    Charlie Self, Oct 30, 2003
  10. Steve Young

    Baz'noid Guest

    Actually, I would think that your accusation would be more true of
    My apologies, nrf - my newsreader successfully didn't download the original
    post!! The finger is now firmly re-pointed at mxsmaniac and flycaster!

    Baz'noid, Oct 30, 2003
  11. Steve Young

    Bernie Guest

    So you are saying recognizing that someone posts a lot is a special
    effort? Speak for yourself then. Some recognitions are so trivial
    that they are background tasks.

    So you can ramp up in a month after 20 years of being out of the
    industry, but it takes special effort to pay attention to your
    surroundings. Makes perfect sense.
    And only vague awareness of the current context too. You forgot to
    add that part.
    Not surprising. There seems to be a memory leak as all have witnessed
    Neither have I, nor Nrf. However, unless you are playing dumb again,
    you know that discussions sometimes reveal personal details. Like a
    discussion on school seems to eventually prompt the question: "Well,
    you are so gung ho about degrees, do you have one and where did you
    get it?" Not from me, mind you, but someone asks it. So if I skim
    through the thread and see the post, I don't deliberately forget it
    like you. I guess my memory must be a lot better, because I don't
    consciously decide to file it away, or expend any special effort, as
    you seem to imply it requires for yourself.
    Do you need another lesson on grammar 101 and the meaning of a
    conditional statement? Or do you need to be reminded again that you
    provided a definition that you subsequently forgot? It seems you
    forgot yet again that you were proven wrong twice regarding your past
    quotes and that verification didn't help you out a whole lot, lol.

    Try this interaction for a reminder of the last grammar lesson. You
    punted last time. I'm sure you'll punt again.


    And this interaction where you actually admit that you were wrong:


    So what were you saying about verification always proving you right?
    [I think I see the punt team coming onto the field again.]

    Bernie, Oct 30, 2003
  12. Steve Young

    Bernie Guest

    effort != cost

    You contended that it was all about the dollars, not about the effort
    or any other factors (see below).

    So I take it your last post is a concession that it isn't about the
    dollars but about a bunch of things.

    Bernie, Oct 30, 2003
  13. Steve Young

    Bernie Guest

    I thought you don't for personal details? An exception perhaps? Oh,
    wait, I get it. Ten minutes after asking Nrf for personal details you
    forgot about it and subsequently claimed (falsely) that you don't ask
    about personal details that have nothing to do with the discussion.

    But you clearly do ask about personal details. So did you just forget
    or were you lying with the post below?

    Bernie, Oct 30, 2003
  14. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    It is when you don't usually look at names.
    Not from me. People who ask the question usually due so as a prelude to
    ad hominem, when they are doing poorly in debate.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  15. Steve Young

    Azzz1588 Guest

    Wanna bet ???

    My neighbors kid has a 0.0 (!!!) grade average, has been in
    summerschool since the 5th grade, and yet with his 0.0 GPA,
    has 8 college scholarships waiting for him because of his tennis
    ability !!!

    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
    Azzz1588, Oct 30, 2003
  16. Steve Young

    Bernie Guest

    Really? See your post below. There are three basic possibilities to
    explain why you would claim to not do something only about 8 minutes
    after doing it:

    1) You have alzheimer's or some similar memory affecting medical
    condition, in which case there is nothing you can do about it. If so
    you should let us know so we can stop expecting you to remember
    anything. It wouldn't surprise me, and at least we might stop
    throwing your own words back at you if it something you just can't

    2) You are lying and know it. Who knows why you would do that when
    there is a public record of the contradiction, but hey, people have
    done stranger things on news groups.

    3) You lie and don't know it, in which case maybe you should seek some
    help for your problem.
    You mean like this (below)?

    So can we expect an ad hominem from you following Nrf's answer? The
    profile seems to fit as you have so astutely laid it out. Mxsmanic
    has poor debate performance, constantly tripping himself up with his
    own contradictions, then asks Nrf about personal life while readying
    the ad hominem attack.

    [You REALLY know how to set yourself up like no one I have ever seen,

    Bernie, Oct 31, 2003
  17. Mxsmanic () wrote:
    : Dave Althoff Jr writes:

    : > The last time I saw a bunch of rec.roller-coaster people around a campfire
    : > was at Knoebels a little less than a month ago.

    : Why is this cross-posted to rec.roller-coaster?

    I've wondered that since the discussion got started. The fact that it is
    also crossposted to alt.troll may be illuminating, however. A few jokers
    have been working very hard to turn rec.roller-coaster into
    rec.troller-coaster lately, much to the annoyance of the r.r-c community
    at large.

    : What do you think of Top Thrill Dragster?

    Dragster is a neat ride, albeit short. I last rode it last Sunday.
    Pretty amazing actually. It's had a lot of mechanical trouble this
    season, year I expect it to be far more reliable. Anyway,
    it did inspire a video available on my web page:

    --Dave Althoff, Jr.
    Dave Althoff Jr, Oct 31, 2003
  18. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    The post you backquote below doesn't mention degrees.
    You missed a possibility: You misread what I wrote.

    I'll quote it again myself:
    No mention of degrees there.

    The reason I asked about it at all is that someone who does well in a
    position and likes it is likely to keep that position, and not often
    move about. So someone who had two stints as a hiring manager, and
    isn't doing it now, may not have liked it, or may not have been good at
    it. And that had a bearing on the current discussion because special
    expertise and credibility were being asserted on the basis of this
    experience, so I asked about it.
    No, I mean like your implications of Alzheimer's disease and lying, in
    the post to which I'm replying now. Or the paragraph below, also from
    your post, for example:
    Sometimes things are not as they might seem, especially upon close
    Mxsmanic, Oct 31, 2003
  19. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    It looks terrifying. Just the photos I've seen of the summit made me

    Cedar Point is still open? When does their season run? I thought it
    was only 3-4 months. (I've always been amazed that such a fancy
    amusement park can stay in business when it runs for only a short period
    each year.)
    There are always bugs in new technology.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 31, 2003
  20. Mxsmanic () wrote:
    : Dave Althoff Jr writes:

    : > Dragster is a neat ride, albeit short. I last rode it last Sunday.

    : It looks terrifying. Just the photos I've seen of the summit made me
    : dizzy.

    : Cedar Point is still open? When does their season run? I thought it
    : was only 3-4 months. (I've always been amazed that such a fancy
    : amusement park can stay in business when it runs for only a short period
    : each year.)

    Cedar Point's season ended last Sunday. This year they were open May 4,
    May 9-September 1, September 6, 7, and Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays
    September 13-October 26. Kings Island has the longer season...they open
    in mid April and end this year on November 2.

    : > Pretty amazing actually. It's had a lot of mechanical trouble this
    : > season, year I expect it to be far more reliable.

    : There are always bugs in new technology.

    Yes, but Cedar Point is usually much better at getting it reliably
    functional early in the season. They didn't get Dragster's problems
    worked out until very late this season, and there is going to be some
    off-season re-working. It had downtime that was not in keeping with the
    park's usual standard of operation.

    --Dave Althoff, Jr.
    Dave Althoff Jr, Oct 31, 2003
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