Is MCSE worth pursuing?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Steve Young, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. Steve Young

    Bernie Guest

    Try and follow the point next time. You claimed:

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    That was eight minutes after asking Nrf a personal question:

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    So if you claim to not ask personal details that are irrelevant to the
    discussion, then why did you ask for personal details that are
    irrelevant to the discussion? Asking for job performance details or
    explanations of why he left the job have nothing to do with what he
    has observed in the job, so spare us the silly explanation next time.
    I'm not sure what degrees have to do with you asking personal
    questions. It is a personal question is it not? And *why* Nrf is not
    a manager or *why* he was a manager twice really has little to do with
    the subject at hand or any of the points that were made. Besides, you
    said you don't ask those types of questions. Kum ba ya my Lord, kum
    ba....
    Not true either. Asking whether he was good, bad, liked it, didn't
    like it had nothing to do with the point that was being made on either
    side. If you like, I will post the preceding questions:

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    So what was under examination is whether Nrf had experience inside of
    hiring to know if HR read every resume. He does, so end of story. He
    didn't have to be good, bad, like it, or not like it to verify that he
    has been in the hiring process enough to verify that HR doesn't read
    every resume. So your explanation just does not hold any water. And
    even if in some twisted way you believe it had something to do with
    the thread, why would you then claim that you didn't ask personal
    details in context of a thread that discussed learning things about
    people over time? Hmmm?
    No it is an honest question. If you can forget that you asked Nrf
    personal questions, and then claim that you don't ask personal
    questions only eight minutes later, then most likely you are lying or
    you have some serious memory problems. I'm trying to understand how
    you can forget several of your own posts within 24 hours, forget
    several of our posts, and then as coupe de gras make a false claim
    eight minutes after doing what you claim not to do. It is quite
    astounding, and if you have a medical condition, then at least that
    explains what is otherwise quite unexplainable. The other alternative
    is that you are lying. Period. It is a simple description of what is
    going on in the thread, period.
    And sometimes they are, even on close examination. I'll ask again.
    Is this a personal question you asked, yes or no:

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    And did you not make this claim, yes or no:

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    And then did you not state that personal questions such as the above
    are a prelude to ad hominem when one is doing poorly in debate? After
    all you have punted every argument with me, and punted many of Nrf's
    points too, so I don't know how you could claim to be doing well. I
    could repost all the punts if you need to see some of them again.
    Another grammar 101 lesson perhaps? So by your own statement, an ad
    hominem will follow the answer to the personal question you asked Nrf.

    And yes, you have set yourself up better than I have seen someone do
    in a long time.

    --Bernie
     
    Bernie, Oct 31, 2003
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  2. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    They were relevant in that case, as I have already explained. He used
    his work experience as an attempt to bolster his credibility, and so
    naturally I asked for more detail on that experience. Had he not used
    his experience as an argument in the debate, I would not have cared, and
    it would have remained irrelevant.

    See? He used experience as an argument supporting his position. That
    made his experience relevant.
     
    Mxsmanic, Oct 31, 2003
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  3. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Perhaps it is pushing the envelope. Doesn't it have a first-of-its-kind
    catapult system, for example? I recall other catapults (in fact, Space
    Mountain at Disneyland Paris was actually the _first_ RC to use one, I
    think), but I seem to remember that TTD had something special. Aren't
    there are a fair number of other firsts in the attraction as well?

    I've heard people say that TTD is the "scariest" RC around. True? If
    not, which one is the scariest?

    (Note: The most I've ever done personally is BTM at Disneyland in
    Anaheim and Paris, and the very simple Indiana Jones ride at Disneyland
    Paris, only in the forward direction.)
     
    Mxsmanic, Oct 31, 2003
  4. Steve Young

    Bernie Guest

    Not exactly. He used his experience to confirm that he has been in a
    position to know what HR does or does not do with every resume. I can
    post the context of the thread once again if you need to see it for
    reference.
    You didn't ask about his experience, e.g. "How many years?" You
    essentially asked why he left and why he isn't doing it anymore which
    is arguably completely irrelevant to the discussion. You also claimed
    (see below) that liking the job or not being good at it has relevance
    to the topic [of whether or not Nrf could verify that HR was not
    reading every resume]. Having a heartbeat is good enough to verify
    the fact that HR isn't reading every resume.


    --Bernie
     
    Bernie, Nov 5, 2003
  5. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Same thing.
    Then why are such questions routinely asked in interviews?
     
    Mxsmanic, Nov 5, 2003
  6. Steve Young

    Bernie Guest

    If it is then why didn't Nrf quiz you on personal details when you
    implied that you have personal experience with HR practices?
    I didn't realize you were interviewing him for a job??? And how many
    job interviewers are simply concerned with answering the question of
    whether HR reads *all* resumes they receive (as opposed to trying to
    hire someone)??? Nice try, but not an apples to apples comparison.

    --Bernie
     
    Bernie, Nov 5, 2003
  7. Zach Davidson, Nov 5, 2003
  8. No it is not.

    I have 4 cert. form Microsoft and need 2 more for the MCSE, boy am I glad I
    didn't wast my time. In this day and age, find another field, I have sent
    out way over 10,000 resume and got nothing. Be a nurse, you will alway have
    a job. 3 years of unemployment for me.

    Richard
     
    Richard Miller, Nov 6, 2003
  9. Steve Young

    David Burton Guest

    *lol* good stuff
     
    David Burton, Nov 6, 2003
  10. Mxsmanic () wrote:
    : Dave Althoff Jr writes:

    : > It had downtime that was not in keeping with the
    : > park's usual standard of operation.

    : Perhaps it is pushing the envelope. Doesn't it have a first-of-its-kind
    : catapult system, for example? I recall other catapults (in fact, Space
    : Mountain at Disneyland Paris was actually the _first_ RC to use one, I
    : think), but I seem to remember that TTD had something special. Aren't
    : there are a fair number of other firsts in the attraction as well?

    It uses an accumulator-driven high-speed hydraulic motor. There is a
    description based on the patent drawings available at
    http://www.virtualmidway.com/rides/topthrilldragster_f2.asp . It isn't
    the first to use that system (that would be Xcelerator at Knott's Berry
    Farm) but it is an order of magnitude faster. Also, Dragster is blocked
    for six trains, and has a much faster interval than Xcelerator. So it is
    a more complicated ride.

    : I've heard people say that TTD is the "scariest" RC around. True? If
    : not, which one is the scariest?

    : (Note: The most I've ever done personally is BTM at Disneyland in
    : Anaheim and Paris, and the very simple Indiana Jones ride at Disneyland
    : Paris, only in the forward direction.)

    It all depends on what scares you. Dragster is 420 feet tall and goes 120
    MPH. If that scares you, TTD is the one to ride. Particularly when you
    go over the top and realize you are looking down 100' to the top of
    Millennium Force.

    Personally, I think the Williams Grove Cyclone is a far scarier ride.
    That one looks and feels like it is going to fall down before the train
    gets back to the station.

    --Dave Althoff, Jr.
     
    Dave Althoff Jr, Nov 6, 2003
  11. Ok after reading the thread I am going to throw in my 2 cents worth.

    Is an MCSE worth pursuing.... YES if you are an IT Professional and you plan
    to implement etc etc Microsoft Systems, go for it!

    Are you just going to Administer systems? Get the MCSA (though if done right
    2 more tests also gets you an MCSE)

    Not going to deal with Microsoft Systems? Novell is growing again with the
    rampant viral attacks to Microsoft Systems so is Red Hat Certified Engineer
    (Strong market for this one) as well as ANYTHING Cisco.

    If you are going to make career in IT then the more you can show you know,
    the further you will go.
     
    Kenner Costen, Nov 6, 2003
  12. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    I have a low tolerance for heights, vertical drops, and "air time," so
    it would probably work. About the only consolation is that it
    (probably?) doesn't last long enough to give anyone a heart attack.
    Particularly given that MF is already 260' above my usual limit.
    Because it is in bad shape, because it is designed to be that way, or
    what?
     
    Mxsmanic, Nov 6, 2003
  13. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    And whatever you do, make sure you find an IT job that requires physical
    presence ... either that, or prepare to move to India when your job is
    outsourced (or do without a job). Avoid all in-office tech support like
    the plague.
     
    Mxsmanic, Nov 6, 2003
  14. Yep, India, aren't them and some other country threatening to nuke each
    other.... I worked for a scum bag start up (name to be withheld to protect
    the scum) that changes their company name every 3 years like clock work. Has
    to do with Java based teleconferencing... Anyways, I had 18 programmers from
    India coding Java. They brought them all over put them in 1 house, paid them
    $8 an hour plus the house....

    But then you can go to India and find whole towns are nothing but IT
    Outsource shops. Hell Microsoft owns a few towns.
     
    Kenner Costen, Nov 7, 2003
  15. Well said. nrf. I'd vote for you any day.
    Steve

     
    Balin, Son of Fundin, Nov 10, 2003
  16. Steve Young

    CybrSage Guest

    Wow, HUGE thread now!

    Onto the point...

    I have a degree in Nuclear Engineering Technologies. I studied at home
    because I found the topic VERY interesting. I found an accredited college
    that accepts CLEP exams (College Level Examination Program, or something
    like that). CLEP exams are basically the final exam for the course. I
    passed them all, some better than others, of course. I received all the
    credits I needed to receive my degree. I paid my $1500, or some such
    amount, for tuition, processing, etc. I have my degree.

    I also have my MCSE, MCSE+I, CNE, CCNA, CCDA, CCA, CCA, A+, and probably
    others that are not really worth mentioning.

    The degree meets the "requirement" for a degree, the certs get a raised
    eyebrow that makes them read on, the experiance gives me the call for the
    interview. My personality and verbal skills get me the job. It is an
    all-inclusive package. The degree is the least of it all.

    Is it paper degree? No. I know just as much, and probably a great deal
    more, about Nuclear Engineering than many people who actually sat through
    the lectures.

    Why don't I work in the nuclear field? People in the US are insanely
    superstitious and attack what they do not understand, so it is a dying
    field.

    So, no one really cares where I got the degree from, nor what it is in, as
    long as I have one. I actually was hired for a robotics job a few years ago
    because the interviewer thought it was MUCH better to learn the way I did
    than to be spoon fed...

    If I worked in the Nuclear Industry, they still would not care where the
    degree was from, just as long as I have the knowledge to back it up.

    Just my two cents...

    CybrSage

    Thought for the day:
    "There are three toos/twos/tos in the English language...how do you write
    that sentance using only one form of the word too/two/to?"
     
    CybrSage, Nov 15, 2003
  17. Steve Young

    bill uimantu Guest

    Dear Sage,
    I saw your note about CLEP exams (College Level Examination Program and it
    intrigued me greatly.
    I have always wondered whether i can leverage all the knowledge i have
    acquired while studying for these technologies in to a degree.
    For example when Wireless started appearing on the horizon , i studied the
    foundational science , spread spectrum, wave theory etc.
    same with IP TELEPHONY. all the protocols and why they were needed.
    Ipsec , got through all the RFC's and now i can tell what was left out from
    the recommendation by some vendors implementation.
    Any way you get the picture.

    So i felt that there must be some place where i can do a one off exam or two
    and fullfill the requirements for a degree in Info tech, Computer Sci, or
    BIz Intelligence for example.
    Your example seemed like the perfect solution but upon closer look on the
    Web, it is a touch different. They are talking about level 100 and some 200
    hundred credit worth, meaning that you still have two to three years to
    finish. Well for what it is worth i would end up repeating what i have
    studied.
    I have visited a lot college websites and even used some of the material but
    frankly some of what they are offering in year 3 is what has now become my
    starting point. in any one the the techology eg DSL..
    i think i saw in Stoneybrook NY an Xdsl course that has the depth of HOW
    STUFF WORKS. suspecting that the material was lifted from there.

    Now dude can you perhaps help me understand how you were able to do a whole
    raft of exam to satisfy your degree requirements so that i may try the same.
    I would love to do post graduate work in this field if i can clear the
    hurdle of the first degree. You seem to have the perfect solution.

    Any body else can also pitch in.

    Thanks group in advance.
     
    bill uimantu, Nov 27, 2003
  18. Steve Young

    Joe Guest

    Can you tell us the name of the school you got your degree from?

    Joe
     
    Joe, Nov 28, 2003
  19. Steve Young

    CybrSage Guest

    Thomas Edison State College of NJ...

     
    CybrSage, Nov 28, 2003
  20. Many colleges will allow you to take the equivalent of a final exam
    for course credit.

    I went full time, but in Calc based physics there was a young man who
    would occasionally visit the class (he was auditing the course) when
    he reached a point in the book where he had some questions. He took
    the Equivalent final (not the same one as the rest of us) and passed.

    Actually he received his Bachelors in Physics in just a couple of
    years. I don't know what he did after that.

    That particular University would let you test out of most classes and
    I believe that to be common. There were exceptions and usually labs
    were one.
    You could take as many tests as you wished, but it cost the same as
    taking the course. You could work your way through a course until
    finished, or you failed a test. THEN you had to go back and take the
    class in person.

    That was a small University (Saginaw Valley State) and I believe
    Central Michigan University has the same type of program. I don't
    think these are quite the same as mentioned below.
    <snip>
    You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
    www.rogerhalstead.com
     
    Roger Halstead, Nov 28, 2003
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