Is It Legal?

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Gary MCSE, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. I wonder if maybe it IS legal to sell. AFAIK there's no law against
    downloading a warez copy and burning the disk, if the seller is charging a
    price that could be considered covering only the blank CD and the time
    involved maybe the only one breaking the law would be the buyer who installs
    it?

    Anyone a lawyer here?
     
    David R. Norton MVP, Jul 2, 2005
    #41
    1. Advertisements

  2. Andre, wouldn't those rules apply only to a licensed reseller of MSFT
    products who's signed an agreement with Microsoft? If the seller has NO
    agreement with MSFT what agreement is he breaking?

    I know the one breaking the law would be the person who buys the product and
    installs it but I'm not sure about any laws pertaining to the seller?

    Once more, anyone here a lawyer? Is there some definitive ruling that might
    clarify the seller's status?
     
    David R. Norton MVP, Jul 2, 2005
    #42
    1. Advertisements

  3. Andre would not fall for it as you almost did.
    I would not fall for it.
    But we know a little more about how to recognize genuine products.
    The indications you gave is that you did not know:
    "Is it legal for someone to sell XP corporate..."
    And
    "OK, this appears to be a valid product"
    An MCSE was asking, an MCSE would know the answer immediately.
    You gave no indication you knew the correct answer.
    Are you an MCSE?

    MCSEs would also know as would probably all MCPs.
    This does not have to do with "obviously high intelligence" as you seem to
    mock.
    It has to do with recognizing a legitimate product some of us work with on a
    daily basis.
    For people in the computer industry this is obvious since there is no such
    thing, it does not take "obviously high intelligence", this is very basic in
    the industry.

    --
    Jupiter Jones [MVP]
    http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
    http://www.dts-l.org
     
    Jupiter Jones [MVP], Jul 2, 2005
    #43
  4. Jupiter Jones [MVP], Jul 2, 2005
    #44
  5. Gary MCSE

    formerprof Guest

    Andre, wouldn't those rules apply only to a licensed reseller of MSFT
    products who's signed an agreement with Microsoft? If the seller has NO
    agreement with MSFT what agreement is he breaking?

    <<<

    He's not breaking an agreement; he's violating a federal statute by selling
    copyrighted materials which are stolen. You wouldn't argue for a moment that
    a person could legally sell (say) marijuana or cocaine so long as he wasn't
    the grower.

    formerprof
     
    formerprof, Jul 2, 2005
    #45
  6. Gary MCSE

    Gary MCSE Guest

    I am glad that you were the one to say "It doesn't take Obviously High
    Intelligence" as that was my point exactly.
    Just to be so arrogant as to say "We would never fall for such a thing
    because we know...we work with it all the time"...what a juvenile thing to
    say.

    You know, its better to keep your mouth closed and let people think that you
    are stupid then to start talking and confirm it.
    I think you must misnamed...should be Uranus for obvious reasons.

    And little boy, I was an MCSE when you were still in a high chair. I can
    honestly say that I probably have forgoten more that you will ever know.

    I am so proud of you, you are in the "Computer Industry"
    Its obvious that you think you're a very important individual when in
    reality your MVP only means that you are a buttkissing little snot nosed kid
    tugging on uncle Bills shirttail.
    You can read whatever you want into my posts but it sure got a sniveling
    little kid like you to show the group what you are all about.
     
    Gary MCSE, Jul 2, 2005
    #46
  7. Gary MCSE

    Gary MCSE Guest

    Sorry Jupey but when attacked, I respond twofold...
    Nothing personal, just a character flaw I guess.
    As you can see, It is very easy to get caught up in the flow.
     
    Gary MCSE, Jul 2, 2005
    #47
  8. Jupiter Jones [MVP], Jul 2, 2005
    #48
  9. Gary MCSE wrote:


    Where did you buy it? You should go get your money back, as the seller
    obviously neglected to include the requisite training and knowledge in
    the sale.


    --

    Bruce Chambers

    Help us help you:
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
    both at once. - RAH
     
    Bruce Chambers, Jul 2, 2005
    #49
  10. I'll have to question that answer. Newspapers are full of stories about
    people selling marijuana or cocaine being prosecuted, AFAIK there are dozens
    if not hundreds of people selling illegal copies of software and NO
    prosecutions so far, these people are all operating openly and making
    absolutely NO attempt at secrecy. Why is that?
     
    David R. Norton MVP, Jul 2, 2005
    #50
  11. Gary MCSE

    Gary MCSE Guest

    There was no purchase made, the idea of the post was to bring to light the
    fact that these guys are operating with little or no fear of getting caught.

    Unfortunately for them, I contacted and ratted on them.
     
    Gary MCSE, Jul 2, 2005
    #51
  12. Gary MCSE

    Gary MCSE Guest

    Wow Brucey aren't you the wit...

    As I remember they really didn't talk at all about piracy and recognizing
    such.
    We concentrated on making everything work.

    TCP/IP
    Server
    Workstation
    IIS
    Networking

    Nope not one chapter on Piracy.
    Nice try though Bruthey.
    When I got my MCSE I had already been babysitting a 1,000,000 sq. ft.
    warehouse with some 350 users and periferals for over 3 years.
    The "Paper" was just a formality.
    You guys that build your little "White Boxes" and pat yourself on the back
    like your some kind of hero are turning the "Industry" into a minimum wage
    business.
    You guys come out of school and are great at spotting Pirated Software,
    (woo-hoo), but can't tell which end of a screwdriver to hold. Its really
    sad to think that you guys are our future.
     
    Gary MCSE, Jul 2, 2005
    #52
  13. Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jul 2, 2005
    #53
  14. The thing is, I have retail Windows XP and Windows product boxes, I have OEM
    Windows XP and Microsoft has remained consistent with the packaging over the
    years, especially from 2000 up to XP, so it would not be difficult to tell
    the difference between pirated and genuine software from the packaging.
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
     
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jul 2, 2005
    #54
  15. Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jul 2, 2005
    #55
  16. Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jul 2, 2005
    #56
  17. Huh? I did not say anything about it being called Corporate Edition -
    actually, I disagree with that name. The point is, the licensing scheme is
    known as Volume Licensing, but the product name remains the same. Meaning,
    if its a company deploying Windows XP Professional through VL, its also
    known as Windows XP Professional through retail.

    You don't see Windows XP Professional Volume License on the Splash screen or
    Help About.
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
     
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jul 2, 2005
    #57

  18. Well, I'll grant that it might not have been thought necessary to teach
    something so obvious, but I dread the though of such a course not
    offering at least a rudimentary introduction to software licensing.
    Makes the MCSE rather worthless as a measure of competence to anyone
    hiring someone to provide proper support for a business or other large
    institution (or home users, for that matter, come to think of it - they
    need good advice, too).


    So few computers and users for so short a time? No wonder you lack any
    true knowledge-in-depth of the IT field. But don't worry. If you
    manage to hang on to that job, the experience will eventually come.
    Ironically, though, you'd get far more useful experience by changing
    jobs and environments periodically.


    Obviously a wasted one.


    To whom are you addressing these paragraphs? By your own statement,
    it's clear that you're the inexperienced one. I've 20+ years experience
    in much larger networks and in more varied (both corporate and
    government) environments than to which you lay claim. Oh, and I've
    never bothered with paperwork "certifications;" they prove only that one
    has taken a course and/or passed a test, not that one has any true
    knowledge. *You're* clearly the one who puts great stock in the
    certification, or you wouldn't have added it to your handle. I didn't
    "come out of school" with and specialized "anti-piracy" knowledge,
    beyond common sense; my learning has been entirely hands-on and direct.

    I will concede that you have a point, irrelevant as is to the
    discussion at hand, about the graduates of the various MCSE boot camps
    and college computer science courses, though. All too many of them
    really don't know how to use tools, plan a deployment or migration, or
    recognize the large and many differences between theory and reality.



    --

    Bruce Chambers

    Help us help you:
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
    both at once. - RAH
     
    Bruce Chambers, Jul 2, 2005
    #58
  19. Gary MCSE

    Gary MCSE Guest

    Sorry for the flames...I really did not intend it to turn into a flame fest.

    You're right, there has been a real consistency regarding retail packaging
    of Microsoft Products.

    But considering that this was an offer for an item most of us were aware,
    (although some have questioned the title "Corporate Edition" as fake, that
    is what it was known as).
    I know a lot of people that have used the so called "Corporate Edition" that
    was being passed around the internet and many have even found a work around
    for the Killed CD-Key issue that prevents the service packs from installing.
    While I certainly do not condone such activity, many people feel differently
    and actively seek Stolen Software, not fully understanding the consequences
    of their actions if caught.
    The picture from the auction was just a thumbnail and it was very difficult
    to see any details of the packaging.
    And considering that:
    1).He had several positive reactions from previous buyers
    2).The price was very low
    3).Stated that it could be installed on many machines instead of the just
    one, (like we all know is the case with XP), it looks like quite an
    attractive offer.

    I fully understand that you guys deal with this stuff all the time and would
    be skeptical of such an item and thats great. You should know your business.
    But the average greedy Joe on the street sees it as an opportunity to save
    some money not realizing the illegality of this.

    I posted originally to get reactions to the fact that someone had finally
    gotten the nerve to sell this crap out in the open without any fear of
    reprisal.

    Someone posted that:
    "It may not be Illegal to sell, and the end user that installs it may
    actually be the law breaker".

    Another Posted:
    "If indeed it is a Non-Existant Product, what law could possibly be broken
    except maybe infringing on a copyrighted name".

    I am not a lawyer, never claimed to be and I am sure there are some here
    that have some legal expertise and my question was answered sufficiently for
    me to send a notice to to turn his ass in.

    I feel that the seller is quite possibly setting others up for a big legal
    hassle and so did my part to stop him.
    Here is a copy of Microsoft's response to the report I sent:

    Response
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Microsoft Corporation thanks you for your recent correspondence to our
    Anti-Piracy team. As an international company that believes in protecting
    intellectual property, Microsoft devotes substantial time and effort towards
    fighting software piracy, and we appreciate your shared interest in this
    cause.

    Our staff promptly handles questions or requests for information on software
    piracy. We actively pursue all reports of possible unauthorized copying
    and/or distribution of Microsoft software. Due to the sensitive legal
    nature of these matters, it is not possible for us to provide feedback or
    updates about actions taken on your submission. However, this in no way
    reduces the importance of your submission to us. Please be assured that
    every submission is taken seriously, investigated, and followed by whatever
    action is deemed necessary.

    Microsoft makes available valuable information you can use to protect
    yourself from pirated software, as well as information about Microsoft
    initiatives designed to protect customers and combat software piracy. To
    find out more, visit www.microsoft.com/genuine and www.microsoft.com/piracy
    where you can learn to recognize genuine Microsoft software and learn more
    about Microsoft's licensing policies.

    Additional information -

    Reporting Software Piracy to Microsoft Online:
    https://microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/reports/report.aspx

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Reporting Software Piracy to Microsoft within USA or Canada: Call
    1-800-RU-LEGIT
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Reporting Software Piracy to Microsoft outside of USA or Canada:
    Visit http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/Reporting_out.mspx for local telephone
    numbers
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For information on recognizing genuine Microsoft software acquired with a
    new PC:
    Visit http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Microsoft Authorized Distributors: Visit
    http://www.microsoft.com/directaccess.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Microsoft Authorized OEM Distributors: Visit http://www.microsoft.com/oem
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Listing of Microsoft volume licensing programs: Visit
    http://www.microsoft.com/licensing
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Additional information about Anti-Piracy from the Business Software
    Alliance:
    Visit http://www.bsa.org.

    Once again, we thank you for your interest and participation in fighting
    software piracy!

    Yours sincerely,

    Microsoft Corporation
    Anti-Piracy Team

    -Please do not respond to this email for it is only an auto-response-
     
    Gary MCSE, Jul 2, 2005
    #59
  20. Yes, my mother or father or brothers could never tell the difference. And
    thats why its best to educate the technically challenged when it comes to
    specifics of these things. I wish Microsoft invest more in this area when it
    comes to education, things have town talks with folks who don't know a lot
    about piracy and legitimacy and benefits of having genuine software. What
    Microsoft needs to also work on is start making businesses activate Volume
    License software, its the major cause of pirated Microsoft software and a
    large percentage of persons are using it outside of appropriate licensed
    environments. You can crack OEM and retail editions of Microsoft products,
    but its usually rare.

    Don't be a victim of software piracy, and the possible legal and technical
    risks that may come with it. Be sure that you are acquiring genuine software
    that is properly installed, fully supported, and legal.

    The following warning signs can help you identify counterfeit or illegal
    software:

    a.. Prices that are "too good to be true."
    b.. Suspicious methods of delivery and/or payment.
    c.. Retail software delivered in jewel cases rather than in full-color
    retail boxes.
    d.. Software marked with phrases such as "For distribution with a new PC
    only" or "Special CD for licensed customers only" that do not accurately
    describe the transaction.
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
     
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jul 2, 2005
    #60
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.