Is Fuji S3000 3.2m/pixel output, or 6 m/pixel interpolated output?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Peter H, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. Peter H

    Bill M Guest

    Why on earth can't you just answer a question? PROVE the 25% green
    orphans....oh, wait, you can't because they don't get orphaned. BTW,
    when you prove your point (with someone besides your bs data), I'll
    answer your question, til then....
     
    Bill M, Nov 22, 2003
    #21
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  2. Peter H

    Ray Fischer Guest

    George is lying outright. There are no green orphans.
     
    Ray Fischer, Nov 22, 2003
    #22
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  3. Peter H

    Ray Fischer Guest

    That's the key fact. They USE 50% green sensors. They don't use 25%
    green sonsors.
    You are a stupid asshole.

    Again and again people explain that the sensors ARE NOT COMBINED and
    still you repeat your lies and deceptions. Instead you cling to your
    ignorance.
     
    Ray Fischer, Nov 22, 2003
    #23
  4. Are you hoping immaturity will change the sensor count?
     
    George Preddy, Nov 23, 2003
    #24
  5. You can't accept that Bayer has 25/50/25% RGB split, but no matter how much
    you try to deny it, it is true.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 23, 2003
    #25
  6. Peter H

    Bill M Guest

    ]
    Never denied it did, but you can't accept it uses all of them, there
    are no 25% greens orphans. Try a reading comprehension class...you'll
    look less the fool.
     
    Bill M, Nov 23, 2003
    #26
  7. Then why has SOny gone to such great lengths to reduce the green orphan
    problem?
     
    George Preddy, Nov 23, 2003
    #27
  8. Peter H

    Bill M Guest

    Sigh...no green orphans, but you'll never get it....what do you think
    happens to Sony's 25R/25B/25G/25E? Which do you think gets orphaned
    there? Wait, I'll give you the right answer...NONE (just like bayer)
     
    Bill M, Nov 23, 2003
    #28
  9. No orphans, now their are GB pairs with no red info, a much better
    situation. It's about the best you can do given the fundamental design
    problem of a 2D arrary and 3 primary colors.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 23, 2003
    #29
  10. Peter H

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Are you hoping that outright lying will make sensors disappear?
     
    Ray Fischer, Nov 23, 2003
    #30
  11. ....

    Have you read even one of the replies where I or someone else has tried to explain
    to you your misconceptions?

    Again...

    There are no "orphaned" sensors. There are no "GB pairs with no red info".
    You still seem to think that a Bayer chip groups 4 sensors into 1 pixel. *IT
    DOESN"T!* Excuse me for shouting, but you don't seem to be hearing this.
    Each and every sensor provides the basis information for exactly 1 pixel.
    Because that information is less accurate than the ideal (and presumably
    less accurate than the information from the 3 sensors used to provide the
    information for a Foveon pixel), additional information is used from all the
    surrounding pixels (presumably at least 8).

    So it is *NOT* that some pixels are orphaned; there are simply more pixels
    based on Green Sensors than other colors.

    Now, as to why Sony chose to go to 4 different color sensors, I can guess.
    Remember that the "3 primary color" model, while very good, isn't ideal.
    There are gaps in the continuous color spectrum. (Someone with a much
    better knowledge of color sampling gave a very coherent explanation of this
    in a thread here not long ago.) A "4 primary color" model has some small
    theoretical advantage. (The quadralateral covers more of the color circle
    than the triangle.)

    Now, if you bother to actually look at the Sony sensor array, you will see
    that every non-red pixel has neighboring red pixels. Hence every pixel
    is built using information from neighboring pixels of the missing primary
    colors. Obviously, the true color resolution of the Sony sensor is no
    higher than the Bayer, roughly 1/2 that of the actual resolution.

    Now, you are certainly welcome to like your Sigma camera better than
    the alternatives, but please be realistic about the actual strengths and
    weakness of the camera.


    --
    Dan (Woj...) dmaster (at) lucent (dot) com

    "These are the days of miracle and wonder / This is the long distance call
    The way the camera follows us in slo-mo / The way we look to us all
    The way we look to a distant constellation / That's dying in a corner of the sky
    These are the days of miracle and wonder / And don't cry baby, don't cry"
     
    Dan Wojciechowski, Nov 26, 2003
    #31
  12. Yes, you are mistaken. Over-using and re-over-using the same red and blue
    data does not provide more optical complimentary matches for the extra green
    sensors. This is an extremely simple concept. Have another look at the raw
    data...
    http://www.pbase.com/image/23420444

    Or are you saying there is no optical downside to capturing more of one
    color in a zero sum game? Maybe you'd like to explain how well the sensor
    would resolve color with 90% green, or 99%? Why not 100%, all orphans?
     
    George Preddy, Nov 26, 2003
    #32
  13. Peter H

    Mike Guest

    Bill M : take a course on information theory, idiot!
     
    Mike, Nov 27, 2003
    #33
  14. Peter H

    Bill M Guest

    Nice contribution there Mike. I understand how both sensors work, from
    your post in another thread, you're as stupid as George...go learn how
    Bayer works then come back when you're educated enough to say
    something intelligent. Better yet, prove the 25% green orphans smart
    ass! Draw a ascii diagram of a Bayer sensor and mark the orphans! Of
    course, you're a sock puppet, so you'll just do like your mentor and
    babble incoherently...
     
    Bill M, Nov 27, 2003
    #34
  15. Peter H

    Mike Guest

    So I'm a sock puppet - does that mean you like me, since I've heard
    how much you love your sock puppet

    I know the basics of the sensors, don't know details like how wide is
    the bandwidth of the microfilters, what intensity ranges do the
    sensors respond to (With meaningful output), trade off of collection
    time vs signal ouput - but I seriously doubt that you know any of this
    either!!!

    And you still should take a course on information theory.
     
    Mike, Nov 30, 2003
    #35
  16. Peter H

    Bill M Guest

    '

    And this will somehow prove tthat something that doesn't exist does?
    It doesn't matter what course I take, Bayer sensors won't suddenly
    ophan 25% of their green pixels. I can go read a fairytale, but a
    unicorn won't be on my lawn in the morning...
     
    Bill M, Nov 30, 2003
    #36
  17. [/QUOTE]

    Suggesting that an all-green sensor, minus 1 red pixel and 1 blue pixel, is
    not as good in full color as the ideal 33/33/33% mix is being an idiot now?
    Hardly. Your ideal that more green is always better is silly, a child could
    tell you that, without a course in information theory.

    Why do you think using the 1 blue pixel and the same 1 red sensor in all of
    6M color interpolated output pixels is better than 2M R, 2M B, and 2M G?
    You'll need to anwer the question at some point.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 30, 2003
    #37
  18. A fairy tale won't be as helpful as a course in information theory.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 30, 2003
    #38
  19. Ah, I know the answer to that. To reconstruct the color information, you
    need to have 3 sensors that have at least 3 linearly independent frequency
    responses. Having 2 with magenta filters and one of some other color
    wouldn't work in theory. R, G and B are probably selected because they are
    nicely spred out across the visivle sprectrum. But they are not the only
    possibilities and at least one nikon digital camera uses cyan, magenta,
    green and yellow.
     
    Gherry Bender, Nov 30, 2003
    #39
  20. The Bayer view, here, is that you don't need to sense 3 colors, only one.
    Just green, and the more the better. Obviously it's a silly point of view,
    but that's what they've been told so they repeat it.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 30, 2003
    #40
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