Insufficient bandwidth problem

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Ash Burton, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. Ash Burton

    Graham J Guest

    Yes, it was me that suggested changing ISP. The measurements indicate
    otherwise, and that your suggestion is better.

    Why not go and watch the match in the flesh? I'm told that is much more
    exciting, but I know nothing about football.

    My preference is classical music, and given the chance I would rather go
    to a concert and hear music live rather than a recording or a broadcast
    - bit of an expensive hobby given that I live near Thetford in Norfolk
    and would have to travel to London, Swansea, Birmingham, Manchester or
    Glasgow to get anything reasonable. Or indeed the Concertgebouw in
    Amsterdam - now it's probably as cheap to fly there from Norwich.
    Graham J, Mar 18, 2015
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  2. Ash Burton

    Ash Burton Guest

    Changing football team is not ever likely to be an option.

    I do sometimes go to matches when i can but as i live 250 miles from
    London now that is not always practicable, added to which last nights
    match was in Monaco who have a woefully small stadium capacity, so
    getting a ticket was impossible, fortunately the match was also live on
    ITV but that is not always the case, even with Sky.

    After all that is what the streaming on the internet is supposed to be
    about, to enable remote viewing of events.

    --- news:// - complaints: ---
    Ash Burton, Mar 18, 2015
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  3. Ash Burton

    Richard_CC Guest

    Completely off topic - Royal College of Music ( live
    stream their major concerts for free. Not like being there but very
    good nevertheless.
    Richard_CC, Mar 18, 2015
  4. Ash Burton

    Graham J Guest

    Ah - worth knowing ...

    I also play (violin) so you could come to:

    Our Shostakovich 10 will be well worth hearing ...

    Not often you get big pieces like this in rural towns, and the King's
    Lynn Corn Exchange is a very good venue to see and listen in.
    Graham J, Mar 18, 2015
  5. Ash Burton

    Phil W Lee Guest

    On Android I use WiFiOptimizer, which you can find in the google store
    or here:,126901.html.
    It can deal with both 2.4GHz and 5.0 GHz (if you have it).
    If all your devices can manage it, 5.0 GHz is likely to be far less
    congested, partly because it doesn't have so much ability to penetrate
    walls or other obstructions.
    Ther eare other apps as well, but I find that does all I need it to,
    and it's donate-ware, so effectively free for personal use - I'd
    certainly toss some money at the author if I was using it for anything
    business related, and may do anyway if I have to keep on using it..

    I'm sure similar apps exist for iThings, but I don't use any of them
    so don't know what would be most appropriate on those.

    Maybe someone who does use iThings can advise, if you need something
    that runs on them.
    Phil W Lee, Mar 18, 2015
  6. Ash Burton

    Ash Burton Guest

    Thanks but i don't have any android devices just a windows os laptop.

    --- news:// - complaints: ---
    Ash Burton, Mar 18, 2015
  7. Ash Burton

    Phil W Lee Guest

    The other possibility is that your ISP is giving their traffic a very
    low priority on their network.
    From the ISPs point of view, streaming live video is a major bandwidth
    hog, so may be one of the first things to be restricted if bandwidth
    is becoming saturated.
    I don't recall if you've mentioned which ISP you are with.
    The area could also be significant, as sometimes there are problems
    affecting certain ISPs only in certain regions (most recently, a major
    restriction on talk-talk in east anglia due to someone breaking one of
    their main trunk fibres).

    One of the advantages of paying a bit more to an ISP is that you tend
    to get lower contention and/or better resilience to problems like
    Phil W Lee, Mar 18, 2015
  8. Ash Burton

    Ash Burton Guest

    My ISP is Orange/EE but they are really only an intermediary of BT as
    they do not have any fixed network of their own, i.e they use BT
    Wholesale for the physical network and equipment provision.

    I suspect you may be right about the restriction of bandwidth but this
    is more likely to be controlled by BT as the wholesaler.

    I am hearing that TalkTalk have recently installed their own broadband
    equipment in my local exchange under the LLU arrangements so that may be
    an alternative (i'm not in East Anglia) but i want to be sure i am not
    missing a simpler solution before that.

    --- news:// - complaints: ---
    Ash Burton, Mar 18, 2015
  9. Ash Burton

    Graham J Guest

    Ash Burton wrote:
    Two neighbours have migrated away from TalkTalk recently because
    TalkTalk could not deliver any traffic.

    In both cases the router (one provided by me, the other provided by
    TalkTalk) showed the expected sync speed for the area (about 1.5
    Mbits/sec) and trivially small error rates, but well known speed test
    websites failed even to download themselves, let alone show any

    I have a very crude speed test which writes a few words of text, draws a
    picture, then calculates the download speed. This would usually
    download the text and a few raster lines of the picture, then hang.
    After many minutes some more raster lines of the picture might be drawn.
    Sometimes the complete picture was drawn, taking many minutes; and the
    speed calculation was shown as a few bytes per second. Yet pinging well
    known websites (e.g. usually resulted in 4 replies with
    under 50mSec delay. Plain text emails would trickle in occasionally if
    the email client was left running - but it would usually report
    inability to contact the POP3 server.

    When the users rang TalkTalk to complain, the connection generally
    improved (speedtest websites would report better than 1 Mbit/sec) for a
    day or so, then would drop back to virtually nothing.

    TalkTalk sent one of their own engineers (a Polish lad with a rather
    poor command of English) to one customer, who connected his own router,
    demonstrated the expected sync speed and an error rate of about one
    error every few seconds; and claimed that the error rate would be the
    cause of the slowdown. (I get the same error rate here and my connection
    gives the expected performance.) He said he would call out Openreach,
    arranged a date (I heard him talking to an Indian - the language
    difficulty was a scream!); the customer stayed in all the appointed day
    but nobody from Openreach turned up. TalkTalk then billed the customer
    for sending their own engineer!

    One neighbour migrated to PlusNet, the other to Zen; and both have had a
    reliable connection since, measuring between 1.0 and 1.5 Mbits/sec

    The exchange is East Harling, and suggests that TalkTalk
    do not have their own equipment there. So as far as I can see PlusNet
    and Zen are both using the same exchange equipment as was previously
    used by TalkTalk.

    So don't touch TalkTalk!
    Graham J, Mar 19, 2015
  10. Ash Burton

    Martin Brown Guest

    I wouldn't wish TalkTalk on my worst enemy. It might just about support
    POTS but a friend with their "service" has working internet only about
    half the time and even then it is much slower than their neighbours.

    [snip another tale of woe]

    Beats me how they are still in business...
    I am a great fan of the bell wire hack on remote rural lines it gave me
    an immediate +50% speed enhancement.
    Maybe there is something significant in the name of the exchange!
    Perhaps it is no coincidence that my friend with the impossibly bad
    TalkTalk internet service is on the East Harlsey exchange.

    They persecute subscribers on East Harl* rural exchanges?
    Martin Brown, Mar 19, 2015
  11. Ash Burton

    Phil W Lee Guest

    So do Zen, and I get several times the actual throughput of my
    neighbours on different ISPs using the same BT (no LLU here either)
    The fact of the matter is that it is the ISP who decide how much
    bandwidth to buy from BT for the connection between the exchange (or
    cabinet) and their own equipment.
    The premium ISPs don't try to cram a quart into a pint pot, the price
    driven ones do - that's how they keep the price low.
    No, BT will be providing whatever bandwidth the ISP is willing to pay
    for. Only a very few exchanges in the country are bandwidth limited.
    You should be able to find out which they are on Samknows, or at least
    if yours is one (any bandwidth restriction will be on their listing
    for the exchange), so just search for it - if no bandwidth restriction
    for your exchange is noted, it's very unlikely that there is one, as
    Samknows do monitor both BT service data and actual connections (as I
    know - I have one of their monitoring boxes sitting right under my
    Do not, under any circumstances, go to TalkTalk, unless you are trying
    to make things worse!
    Phil W Lee, Mar 20, 2015
  12. Ash Burton

    Richard_CC Guest

    FTTC has just arrived in our village, and the once-great now dismal
    Demon don't offer a service. So after 18 years with them I need a new
    ISP. Zen and BT are my shortlist and I wonder if Zen is worth the c.
    £10 a month extra it will cost me.

    Looks like you are Zen customer, so any comments welcome.
    Richard_CC, Mar 20, 2015
  13. Yes it is. If the choice is between Zen and BT, go with Zen. If you
    ever need technical help you'll be glad you did. Also, you'll get an
    internet service that's all yours as you won't be expected to provide
    a free guest wireless service as part of the deal.

    Don't buy a separate router, but get one of these instead-

    Let Openreach do their initial testing with the Huawei modem they
    provide, then replace it with the Billion unit. It's a modem and
    wireless router in one box. In fact it has two modems, ADSL and
    VDSL(FTTC), so if you already have ADSL you can use it straight away
    and just change the settings on the day.

    Roderick Stewart, Mar 20, 2015
  14. Ash Burton

    Lenny Guest

    TalkTalk are fine as long as they have their equipment in the exchange.
    TalkTalk over BT Wholesale is terrible, as is Sky over BT Wholesale.
    Only ever use the full LLU providers if they have their equipment in the
    exchange, that's the golden rule.
    Lenny, Mar 20, 2015
  15. Ash Burton

    Richard_CC Guest

    Sadly its a very small exchange. Only Sky and talk talk have LLU kit in
    it. Neither appeal to me for various reasons.
    Richard_CC, Mar 20, 2015
  16. Ash Burton

    Phil W Lee Guest

    To me, easily worth it.
    In the unlikely event that you need to speak to the helpdesk, they
    even speak English (well, Lancashire, which is a closer cousin than
    anything on the sub-continent).

    If you want or need IPv6, A&A are the place to go, but beware of their
    daytime bandwidth costs.

    My cabinet seems to have just had G.INP enabled, which has benefited
    my connection by 10% downstream speed, 85% error reduction, and no
    more interleaving. The early indications from the increased SNRM are
    that there could be more to come, too, as DLM allows it :-D
    Phil W Lee, Mar 21, 2015
  17. Ash Burton

    Phil W Lee Guest

    Strongly seconded.
    The 8800NL is good enough that I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a SME
    environment, even though it retails at consumer prices.
    And yes, I've specified a LOT of routers for business use, so I think
    (or at least, they did) that I know a little bit about them.
    If you want to have the capability of 3G/4G fallback, there's a newer
    model BiPAC 8800AXL which also has 5 gigabit ports and dual band WiFi,
    up from the single gigabit + 3 100mbit ethernet and 2.4GHz only WiFi
    of the NL.

    That's a lot more spendy though. It might be worth it if you are in a
    potential gigabit internet area, as one of the gigabit ports can be
    configured to be WAN or LAN - so very future proofed.
    Phil W Lee, Mar 21, 2015
  18. Ash Burton

    Andy Burns Guest

    Can it do PPoE bridge mode?
    Andy Burns, Mar 21, 2015
  19. Ash Burton

    Martin Brown Guest

    It isn't a small exchange if it has *any* LLU unbundling in it.
    Martin Brown, Mar 21, 2015
  20. Ash Burton

    Phil W Lee Guest

    Phil W Lee, Mar 21, 2015
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