Image stabilization shoud be stabilized

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by PeterN, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    PeterN, Aug 17, 2013
    #1
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  2. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    1. Do not turn Vibration Reduction (Image Stabilization) on unless
    working at shutter speeds lower than the focal length of the lens ­
    it does hurt the sharpness a little.

    crazy idea. turning off stabilization at 1/fl is crazy. that means
    1/50th for a 50mm lenses, which is a relatively slow shutter speed.
    it's the rule of thumb for camera shake but not everyone has stable
    hands. shooting at 1/200th can often benefit from stabilization.

    where stabilization can be a problem is at higher shutter speeds where
    it's shorter than the stabilizer's sampling frequency. that means
    stabilization at high shutter speeds can make things worse. the oft
    cited speed is 1/500th, but it varies depending on the actual
    stabilization system being used.

    2. If you decide to turn Vibration Reduction on, make sure to
    half-press the shutter button for a few seconds to let the
    camera/lens stabilize a little first.

    3. If you shoot right away without stabilizing, it will most likely
    negatively impact the sharpness of your images.

    obviously, the stabilizer takes a moment or two to stabilize and it's
    effect can be seen in the viewfinder.
     
    Guest, Aug 17, 2013
    #2
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  3. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    Which was the point of the article.


    When I shoot birds I try to shoot at speeds at or above 1/1000 of a
    second, with with al lens that may range up to 400mm. If I use
    stabilization, where I have to wait that fraction of a second, the shot
    could be lost.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2013
    #3
  4. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    keep the button half pressed so the stabilizer is stable. no shots lost.

    however, speeds of 1/1000th *might* be faster than the stabilizer
    sampling frequency so it might be an issue, or it might not. depends on
    the particulars of the system.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #4
  5. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    leave it on and learn how it works.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #5
  6. PeterN

    PeterN Guest


    Your advice differs from that of professions wildlife photographers. It
    is a well known that stabilization only serves to slow down the
    autofocus speed at shutter speeds above 1/500 of a second/ I shoot birds
    in flight at at least twice that speed.

    <http://www.evergladesphotosociety.org/articles/flightpart01.html>

    Of course you are free to do as you wish.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2013
    #6
  7. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    Themaker told me that all the birson this website were shot with IS off.
    Yes, a tripod was usedfor many of them, but others were hand held.


    <http://www.birdsasart.org/#mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=0&p=11&a=0&at=0>

    it's up to the maker to do as he wishes. All I do is point out issues
    that i sometimes find.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2013
    #7
  8. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    I learned that about two years ago, whne my images were not as sharp as
    I thought they should be. VR is great, but just like other technology,
    there is a place for its use.
    I would not use speed control of my car, on city streets.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2013
    #8
  9. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    why buy a stabilized lens if you're not going to use the stabilization?

    shooting birds with a stabilized lens is much easier because you can
    keep the bird where you want in the frame, since the stabilization
    stabilizes what you see in the viewfinder. this also helps autofocus
    and exposure too.

    those with in-camera stabilization don't get this benefit because the
    viewfinder is not stabilized, only the sensor.

    otherwise, it's hard to keep it steady, especially at longer focal
    lengths.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #9
  10. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    first of all, he said nothing about wildlife. stabilized lenses are
    very useful in far more situations than just wildlife.

    second, it might be different from one wildlife photographer, but
    certainly not all of them.
    it's not well known at all, since it doesn't do that.

    stabilization *helps* autofocus speed because what the autofocus
    sensors see is not constantly jumping around, one moment on the bird
    and the next moment off the bird.

    with stabilization, you can keep the viewfinder on the bird, under the
    selected focus point (unless you're using tracking focus, which is
    useful in some situations).

    the issue he describes, using stabilization with shutter speeds over
    1/500th, has to do with the stabilizer sampling frequency, which i
    already mentioned. it does not affect autofocus.
    as is everyone.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #10
  11. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    for appropriate times, such as low light shots when longer exposures are
    needed. If you have doubts, Google is your friend. There is also a
    discussion of this in DPreview.


    VR off:
    <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/hummer flying1.jpg>

    VR off:

    <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/osprey about to land.jpg>

    VR off:

    <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/anhinga the next buildeer.jpg>

    VR onL

    <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/It's Mine.jpg>

    Do you see the pattern.


    See above. do some esearch.
    Do as you wish. I letr my results do the talking.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2013
    #11
  12. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    Stop shifting. The core issue is that stabilization does not help an
    image at high shutter speeds. In fact it hurts the image for reasons
    stated in the article.
    You are opining agianst the weight of authority on this issue.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2013
    #12
  13. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    i'm not shifting anything.
    nope. it *can* hurt the image because of the stabilization sampling
    frequency versus the shutter speed, but it doesn't always hurt the
    image.

    it also has nothing whatsoever to do with affecting autofocus.
    not at all. i understand how the technology works.

    there can be an issue at higher shutter speeds, but *not* for the
    reasons he claims. he is mistaken as to why.

    even someone unfamiliar with how stabilization actually works would
    realize that the autofocus and stabilization systems are independent.
    if anything, a stabilized view *helps* the autofocus system because the
    subject is not moving around the frame as much.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #13
  14. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    <http://improvephotography.com/743/tips-birds-in-flight-photography-anim
    al-bird-digital/>

    Bird Photography Tip #10: Don¹t skimp on Image Stabilization. It is
    unfortunate that image stabilized lenses often come at a premium,
    because some photographers opt for the cheaper lens without image
    stabilization.  Especially for telephoto lenses, your image
    stabilization will be absolutely vital to the success of your
    photography of birds in flight.

    <http://photographylife.com/how-to-photograph-birds>
    The best bird photographers in the world will tell you that they
    cannot live without their 500mm and 600mm lenses, preferably with
    optical stabilization + teleconverters.
    that's the farthest thing from a controlled test possible.
    i have.

    now take your own advice.
    your results are meaningless. they're not a controlled test of anything.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #14
  15. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    exactly why you want stabilization!

    note that there is a panning mode, where you can pan to follow a
    subject and it stabilizes the up/down direction. this can be quite
    useful for birds in flight but less useful for one perched on a branch.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #15
  16. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    i'm not evading anything, nor is it 'my old trick'.

    image stabilization is leads to the image *not* moving on the sensor.
    that's the whole point! it also helps autofocus attain focus since the
    focus points are on the same parts of the subject.

    however, like everything, stabilization has its limits and using it
    outside of those limits can potentially be worse (but not always). one
    such limit is high shutter speeds, and that's not due to autofocus
    issues.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #16
  17. PeterN

    Guest Guest

    i'm not ignoring it all. i explained why it can happen and when.

    why do you ignore that?

    in normal use, stabilization *reduces* the amount the image moves on
    the sensor. that's the whole point.

    outside of that, pretty much anything goes.
    contradict what claim?
    partly.

    i said there's an issue at high shutter speeds but *not* because it
    affects autofocus. it's the stabilization sampling frequency.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2013
    #17
  18. PeterN

    Sandman Guest

    Is this really news?

    "There are a number of folks out there, who seem to think that just
    firing the shutter button is sufficient and that VR will stabilize
    those images as good as if one were to half-press the shutter
    button, wait a few seconds and then take an image"

    Really? Who are these people? Anyone that have used IS should have
    noticed the difference between direct release and waiting for the IS
    motors to do their job.

    Now, had he said that "a number of folks out there hasn't *realized*
    that the IS motor needs a second to stabilize the lens.." then I
    wouldn't disagree, but I find it hard to believe that there are users
    who have shot with and without direct release and still argue that IS is
    better, or as good, with direct release.
     
    Sandman, Aug 18, 2013
    #18
  19. PeterN

    Sandman Guest

    Not really. The images are so heavily post processed and JPG compressed
    that it's hard to see the original difference. Of the four, the last
    with VR on is by far the most sharpest, but it too has a lot of post
    done to it.
     
    Sandman, Aug 18, 2013
    #19
  20. PeterN

    David Taylor Guest

    On 18/08/2013 00:24, PeterN wrote:
    []
    Yes, I can accept that, although I normally try to keep the
    stabilisation running and thereby avoid the problem. Do what is best
    for you.
     
    David Taylor, Aug 18, 2013
    #20
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