If Brit police are terrified their jobs are threatened by cutbacks,this isn't the way to illustrate

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest


    Amateur photographer magazine technical writer Richard Sibley has been
    stopped by police while taking photos of snow in Bromley, Kent today.

    Richard, who lives nearby, said he was questioned by a Police
    Community Support Officer as he took pictures of a snow-covered train

    'He asked what I was doing,' said Richard (pictured).

    'I replied “I'm taking photos in the snow”.'

    'He said “I'm asking as this is a time of heightened security”. To
    which I pointed out that I didn't think Bromley South Station in the
    snow would be a likely terrorist target... especially as a potential
    terrorist could just look up the same images on Google Street View
    without getting their feet and hands cold'.

    In recent years Amateur photographer has been at the forefront of a
    nationwide campaign to defend photographers' right to take pictures in
    public, as many fell victim to anti-terror laws.
    RichA, Nov 30, 2010
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  2. RichA

    peter Guest

    And the US laws you mentioned are ????
    peter, Nov 30, 2010
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  3. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    "Stopped", in this case, means "Questioned". Unless you can provide
    more information, all we can glean from the article is that a police
    officer asked Sibley some questions. There's no indication that the
    officer stopped Sibley from taking any more photographs or keeping the
    images he had.

    Are you in favor of laws that prohibit a police officer from asking a
    tony cooper, Nov 30, 2010
  4. RichA

    MC Guest

    Ignore it. It is once again a misleading post. The chap was merely
    approached and asked what he was doing by a PCSO, not even a real
    police officer. The photographer politely replied and as far as that
    goes that was the end of it. In fact Amateur Photographer magazine has
    published a non-story. It must have been a slow news day.

    MC, Nov 30, 2010
  5. RichA

    peter Guest

    Do I need to remind you that you stated certain states had laws
    supporting the police action?
    You need not answer my rhetorical question
    peter, Dec 1, 2010
  6. RichA

    peter Guest

    I won't even waste any one's time asking for the source of that statement.
    You just have no clue about what you are talking about.
    peter, Dec 1, 2010
  7. RichA

    MC Guest

    Well that's basically what they are and with very few powers.

    MC, Dec 1, 2010
  8. RichA

    Mike Guest

    I'd hardly describe him as a victim. Perhaps the terrorists on 11/9 or
    7/7 would have had a similar smart-alec response prepared in case
    someone asked them what they where doing.

    I was once stopped and asked to produce my driving licence and what I
    had been doing after driving along a 24hr bus lane at 2:30am. Maybe I
    should have cited my human rights and gone blubbing to the press.

    The officer was using my mis-demeanour as an excuse to see if I was
    under the influence. I wasn't and drove of a few minutes later, only
    now do I realise that I was a victim and my rights had been grievously

    Whilst I've seen plenty of video's showing overly officious police
    officers/security guards moving photographers on, the photographers also
    seem to be doing their level best to provoke a reaction. A modicum of
    sense from either part would have resolves the problem, instead we have
    a photographer crying like a softcock over his rights and screw everyone

    If I am ever asked to stop taking pictures I will, I don't regard it as
    a god given right to photograph other people and their property if they
    don't want me to regardless of where they are or their job.

    Mike, Dec 1, 2010
  9. RichA

    Richard Guest

    Please stop taking pictures.
    Now sell you camera.
    Richard, Dec 1, 2010
  10. RichA

    Mike Guest

    There's gratitude for you, I thought I did a top notch job on your
    mugshot, I even managed to photoshop out that huge zit:

    Mike, Dec 1, 2010
  11. RichA

    Richard Guest

    Thanks again.
    Richard, Dec 1, 2010
  12. RichA

    Ollie Clark Guest

    If you look at the photo in the article, Sibley was taking pictures of
    the officers in front of the station. I have to say, if I was in their
    place, I might well have asked him what he was doing!


    Ollie Clark, Dec 1, 2010
  13. RichA

    GMAN Guest

    They have NO business asking you questions or stopping you if you are not
    violating ANY laws.
    GMAN, Dec 1, 2010
  14. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    You're a real genius. So if a policeman sees a guy running away from
    a house with a bag of swag over his shoulder and a mask on, the
    policeman shouldn't stop him because he didn't see the man actually
    fill the bag.

    After all, it could be a kittens in the bag and he was off to the
    river to drown them and couldn't find his sunglasses.
    tony cooper, Dec 2, 2010
  15. RichA

    shiva das Guest

    I can only speak to New York State's laws. If you are asked to show
    identification to a police officer you are required to comply. No
    probable cause, no profiling, no nothing. If you refuse you will be
    arrested ("failure to obey a lawful order") and taken to the precinct
    house where they will fish out your ID for you.

    In certain places, such as the NYC Subway System, your bag(s) may be
    searched randomly. Again, no probable cause, no profiling. Now, the
    Subway system is private property, being owned by the Metropolitan
    Transit Authority, and that may figure into it -- like airport security.
    And like airports have the TSA, the Transit Authority uses the NYPD for

    That said, if you are stopped while driving the police may not search
    your car without probable cause, and speeding isn't probable cause. The
    same goes for the subway -- you cannot refuse a bag search and ID check,
    but you personally may not be searched unless you give permission (bad
    idea) or there is a warrant.

    Photography is another thing entirely. Bridges which are owned by the
    MTA have signs posted forbidding photography. However, there is no law
    forbidding photography from bridges. In these cases the police will
    issue a summons for "failing to observe posted signs", which is a day
    out of your schedule and $150.00 out of your pocket. Publicly owned
    bridges such as the George Washington (and others administered by the
    Port Authority of NY and NJ) forbid photography. If caught you face
    "suspicion of terrorism" which is a whole lot worse than any summons.
    Photography inside the subway system is perfectly legal (not for the
    lack of the MTA's trying).

    Now before anyone starts asking for references, all this is from my own
    personal experience.

    I was chased from the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (i.e. the New
    York County Morgue) for taking a picture through their open door. While
    walking quickly away I switched memory cards, and stopped. They wanted
    to arrest me but I just maintained that I was across the street, not on
    their property, and anyway I thought they were Bellevue Hospital's
    morgue, honest, I didn't know it was the Medical Examiner...

    I had two police cars come screeching to a stop next to me when I was
    taking pictures of one of the very large power plants along the East
    River. They really wanted to pull me in ("suspicion of terrorism") but I
    was able to dissuade them. Besides, that power plant was scheduled for
    demolition so I explained that I document industrial wastelands prior to
    their being toppled over and turned into a Walmart. Which I do.

    I was taking pictures of some ornamental bronze work on the outside of a
    house of worship on 5th Avenue. There was a police trailer there, and
    after a few shots a policeman came out and asked what I was doing. I
    explained the architectural significance of the building, gave him my
    driver's license, and waited for them to find out that I had no
    outstanding warrants. When asked if I knew why I was being stopped I
    said I had no idea; the bronze work is in fact quite beautiful.

    I was pulled out of a subway car. Well, I was riding between the cars,
    which is stupid, dangerous, and quite illegal. I was trying for some
    interesting shots from that perspective. I made the mistake of staying
    between the cars as the train pulled into the station where there
    happened to be three policemen staring at me. They loudly stopped the
    train and said it wasn't going anywhere until "the guy" riding between
    the cars gave himself up. I gave myself up. ID check and obligatory "do
    you know why we stopped you?" "Yes, sir. I was riding between the cars
    which is not a good idea" (being polite to police works most of the
    time). $250.00 fine, no mention of photography.

    Because I live in NYC and was here on 9-11-01 I understand that the
    police and National Guard units assigned to transportation hubs are on
    edge. My aim is not to antagonize anyone. However, if I want to continue
    taking pictures here I have to learn and know my rights _and_
    responsibilities. There is nothing prejudicial about saying "I realize
    that you are trying to do your job. However, as I don't know much about
    the law and you are a trained law enforcement agent, I'm sure you
    understand that I can't answer any of your questions without the advice
    of a lawyer."

    There is/was a series of pieces on youtube on how to politely assert
    your rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Worth a look.
    shiva das, Dec 2, 2010
  16. RichA

    peter Guest

    Rules for subway photography:

    Another rules reference:

    The rules in City Parks:

    I am too lazy to research other sites.
    peter, Dec 2, 2010
  17. RichA

    peter Guest

    About 15 years ago a man with black skin was seen running in an upscale
    and mostly white neighborhood while, carrying a TV set. There had been a
    report of a burglary. Based upon that alone, the man was stopped a and
    frisked. They found burglar tools in his possession. The court held
    there was no probable cause as the guy was racially profiled. All
    evidence from the stop was not admitted and the case was dismissed.

    The law in Florida might be different.
    peter, Dec 2, 2010
  18. RichA

    peter Guest

    I know all that. The amount of municipal "off the books," or improperly
    categorized expenditures boggles my mind.
    The infrastructure for many prisons is frequently paid for through use
    of a private activity bond issue, which makes the interest paid by the
    state tax deductible, except that it is an add back for AMT purposes.
    peter, Dec 2, 2010
  19. RichA

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:19:23 -0500, peter

    --- snip ----
    There is nothing missing if the private entity does a better job than
    the state would do.

    Eric Stevens
    Eric Stevens, Dec 2, 2010
  20. RichA

    mark232 Guest

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