How to tell a rank amateur from a seasoned one, or a pro

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. RichA

    J. Clarke Guest

    I heard it:

    When the law is against you pound on the facts,
    when the facts are against you pound on the law,
    when both are against you, pound on the table.

    The table is less likely to respond to your pounding with "objection"
    and the judge is less likely to respond with "sustained".
    J. Clarke, Jul 4, 2010
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  2. RichA

    Pete Guest

    Actually, I was using the vernacular. You are keen on using quotes so I
    thought you would enjoy my adaptation above.
    Obviously the replies have not made it clear.
    Interpreting "adequate performance" as a pejorative is just being
    silly. A camera phone delivers adequate performance for many users; a
    top notch DSLR can deliver technically better images, but inadequate
    overall performance for the vast majority of camera users. The
    difference in level of engineering is obvious. Your phrase "excellent
    performance" is subjective. My statement was objective, less
    contentious, and had a much wider scope.
    I doubt that your "considerably more respect" would ever reach
    adequate, let alone excellent. However, I like it just the way it is.

    You wish to see my choice of words as pejorative - I cannot change your
    wishes. Fine, so don't object when I play along with it.

    As for bashing, that is what you do to others. I prefer photography as
    a hobby, but the odd sparring match with you is a pleasant distraction.
    Pete, Jul 4, 2010
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  3. RichA

    Guest Guest

    Interpreting "adequate performance" as a pejorative is just being

    you may have missed it when he played the pejorative card after someone
    called his camera a point and shoot.

    it was pointed out to him that pretty much everyone calls non-dslrs
    point and shoot cameras, including stores who sell them and even the
    manufacturers of the cameras themselves. it's common usage of the term.

    none of that mattered to him. he called it a pejorative, which meant it
    gave him an exit strategy. it's one of his usual tactics.
    Guest, Jul 4, 2010
  4. Q.E.D.
    John McWilliams, Jul 4, 2010
  5. RichA

    Ray Fischer Guest

    You're just annoyed that I dared to point out that you defend trolls.
    Ray Fischer, Jul 5, 2010
  6. RichA

    Pete Guest

    Thanks, I hadn't realized that.
    Pete, Jul 5, 2010
  7. RichA

    whisky-dave Guest

    What do you mean by the lag of a camera, don;t you realise there's many
    where lag can be accumulated.
    For me there are many areas of lag, one I eliminated wass by not usiong a
    lens cap when I was ready to take photos, another was focusing before I take
    the shot, rather than just before I take the shot.
    whisky-dave, Jul 5, 2010
  8. RichA

    Guest Guest

    lag is not a function of the user's skill. the camera is either fast or
    it's not.

    how well a user can deal with a slow camera may involve skill (and a
    little bit of luck too).
    in other words, you have a number of workarounds for limitations of the
    what was that you like to say about attacking the man?
    Guest, Jul 5, 2010
  9. RichA

    Guest Guest

    wrong, no matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

    you must be really threatened.

    b&h photo, one of the largest if not *the* largest worldwide seller of
    photo equipment, classifies digital cameras into three categories,
    point & shoot, slr and mirrorless system cameras for the latest large
    sensor compacts, a category that didn't exist until recently.


    olympus calls their own cameras 'feature rich point and shoot cameras.'
    it's hardly pejorative when the maker themselves use the term.

    Guest, Jul 5, 2010
  10. You're right, but it's perjorative to John. I've been writing "compact"
    for a while. It doesn't hurt.
    John McWilliams, Jul 5, 2010
  11. Hardly, Ray. I point out that you feed the trolls, swear at them, tell
    them to go away, AND: It only makes them stick around more. That's my
    point, full stop.
    John McWilliams, Jul 5, 2010
  12. RichA

    Guest Guest

    wrong. olympus does:


    b&h calls them point and shoot and so does keh, as do a lot of people.

    only in your mind is it considered to be derogatory.

    you're threatened. it's clear.
    Guest, Jul 5, 2010
  13. Some use it that way, most do not, I am sure. I started using "compact"
    in deference to your view, besides which it's shorter to type.
    John McWilliams, Jul 5, 2010
  14. RichA

    Guest Guest

    true. he's threatened so he resorts to word games.
    p&s is even shorter :)
    Guest, Jul 5, 2010
  15. RichA

    Pete Guest

    From what I've understood from reading several Usenet photography
    groups since last November, my initial reaction would be to disagree.
    However, you did say "here" so I stay open-minded.

    My perception is that hatred of DSLR owners in the various groups seems
    to be an order of magnitude worse than the pejorative remarks in the
    other direction. Owning both an old (but very nice) P&S and a DSLR
    makes me dislike all of the arguments. It appears that you may have
    thought I was a DSLR nutter and I thought you were an anti-DSLR person.

    I get the impression that polarization of views is not helped by
    starting a thread topic in the wrong group(s). The only few threads
    I've started were in because I guessed the ensuing
    discussions would go off-topic for more specific groups.

    I would love to have a high-end bridge camera (what is the correct
    short-name for these?), but my inescapable limitations make it
    impossible for me to use one properly. Luckily, I didn't find the time
    to sell my old SLR lenses when I had to give up photography 12 years
    ago: I now manage to enjoy my passion for night and twilight
    photography, just bumbling along step-by-step.

    My wish that the petty arguments will end is as ridiculous as me
    writing to Santa asking for a new lens. The only person I can change is
    myself - it's a pity there's no equivalent of GPS to point me in the
    right direction. Some may say that Usenet will send me off-course
    faster than anything else, yet my interaction during the last 8 months
    has been an interesting journey: both confusing and valuable. I have
    Pete, Jul 5, 2010
  16. RichA

    Joel Connor Guest

    For him to claim to be the expert about CHDK the way he continually does,
    you'd think he'd know about the simple shortcut button-press to quickly set
    any CHDK'ed camera's focus to a "hyperfocal" setting for your selected
    aperture nearly instantaneously (or another shortcut button-press for
    infinity). These are basic functions of CHDK that everyone knows about. So
    much for his claims about knowing anything at all about CHDK cameras too.

    Yet these other online trolls just agree with someone as obviously
    delusional as SMS. Birds of a feather!
    Joel Connor, Jul 5, 2010
  17. RichA

    Joel Connor Guest

    Hey troll. Let's see some of your photography. What's that? You don't have
    any? Yeah, we all already know that.

    But just to correct your wild imaginings..

    In other words, you have a number of workaround for the limitations of your

    1. Don't change lenses.

    2. Don't keep it in a camera bag.

    3. Don't leave it at home gathering dust because it's so damn cumbersome
    and heavy and it's not allowed in most public events.

    5. Don't use long focal-lengths or you'll miss those shots setting up a

    6. Should I go on with the rest of your lousy DSLR workarounds? I could
    type about 200 more if you want.
    Joel Connor, Jul 5, 2010
  18. RichA

    SMS Guest

    Wrong perception. There are a grand total of two people that are
    pathological liars on the subject, Navas, and our favorite troll that
    goes by a plethora of identities in an effort to evade everyone's kill
    I doubt if there's a single D-SLR owner posting on any of the groups
    that does not own at least one P&S digital camera, and most have several
    in their household (we have five P&S cameras and one D-SLR in my house).
    There is an attraction of such a camera, but the ones that are presently
    available had limitations that make them a poor choice for most people
    used to the quality and versatility of a D-SLR. A replacement for the
    Sony DSC-R1 that did not give up the key features like the large sensor
    and the mechanical zoom ring would be part of a good bridge camera,
    along with a wider range lens. But with the R1 Sony realized that there
    are limits to how wide of a focal range you can have and still have a
    good lens. So the first issue with the R1 was that the telephoto range
    wasn't long enough, and how nice it would be to be able to extend the
    telephoto range. So Sony sold a 1.7x Tele Extender Lens, but it was
    huge, worked well only over 100-120mm of the regular lens, and using it
    really cried out for IS, and the R1 lacked IS. All the experts advise
    against the use of telephoto and wide-angle adapters on P&S cameras with
    good reason.
    SMS, Jul 5, 2010
  19. RichA

    Joel Connor Guest

    And many multinational drug companies, far wealthier than B&H, who are now
    getting class-action lawsuits advertised on TV to try to find all those who
    were injured or killed by their products will call deadly medications as
    "Safe and Effective".

    Your point?

    Do you always let advertising define your reality for you?

    You have some serious problems if so.
    Joel Connor, Jul 5, 2010
  20. RichA

    Joel Connor Guest

    It would be interesting to compare the list of names in this thread with
    those posting in the thread about CF vs. SD cards, and those who hate more
    compact SD cards because of their fat, uncoordinated, and fumbling fingers.
    Much could be discovered by doing so.
    Joel Connor, Jul 5, 2010
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