How to create DVD-Audio disc

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Kryptoknight, May 31, 2004.

  1. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    : Richard C. wrote:
    : > Your subject line is "How to create DVD-Audio disc".
    : >
    : > What you are doing is placing the normal DD or DTS tracks onto a
    DVD.
    :
    : ...in DVD-A format. What's so confusing about that?

    =======================
    No....it is NOT DVD-Audio format.
    Not in any way that I understand.
    DVD-Audio is not created from DD or DTS.
    ========================

    : It's equivalent to,
    : say, creating a DVD video disc from an old VHS tape. Of course you're
    not
    : going to get the quality of a fully remastered DVD, but it's all about
    : transferring something from one medium to another.
    :
    : I think the OP has been remarkably patient with you, and those of you
    who
    : have been endlessly ragging on him owe him an apology.
    :
    : Mike

    ======================
     
    Richard C., Jun 3, 2004
    #81
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  2. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    : Richard C. wrote:
    : > : >> Richard C. wrote:
    : >>>
    : >>> ========================
    : >>> But it is NOT possible to rip the DVD-Audio track from a DVD-Audio
    : >>> disc. THAT is what you were asking about in your original post -
    as
    : >>> seen in your subject heading (which is still intact).
    : >>> =======================
    : >>
    : >> Richard, he's asking about burning audio tracks that he's ripped
    from
    : >> another source to DVD-A format.
    : >>
    : >>> ====================
    : >>> DVD-Audio is a unique format.
    : >>> =====================
    : >>
    : >> If you read the link he posted, it appears that DVD-A is a DVD,
    with
    : >> a content structure that's different from DVD video. That's all.
    : >>
    : > ++++++++++++++++++++++
    : > And that content structure is a DVD-Audio content.
    : > ++++++++++++++++++++++
    :
    : No, it can be any audio content. There is no such thing as "DVD-Audio
    : content" any more than there is such a thing as "DVD-video content".
    I've
    : transferred several VHS tapes to DVD - would you claim that those
    aren't
    : "real DVDs"?

    =================
    Sure....they are real DVDs.

    But a DVD with Audio created from DD and DTS is NOT DVD-Audio format.
    ======================
    :
    : >>> ======================
    : >>> Only if you have PROFESSIONAL equipment as described on the web
    site
    : >>> you pointed us to.
    : >>> It costs THOUSANDS! It is not something you can do at home.
    : >>> =========================
    : >>
    : >> Actually, it looks like you can do it from home, and all you need
    is
    : >> the software.
    : >>
    : >>> You will still not have a DVD-Audio disc that conforms to
    DVD-AUDIO
    : >>> specifications.
    : >>> =======================
    : >>
    : >> Actually, it looks like this is quite easy to accomplish. :)
    : >>
    : >>> ===================
    : >>> It is YOU that has no idea what a DVD-Audio disc is.
    : >>> =====================
    : >>
    : >> I think it's time to let up on the guy. Appears to be a big
    : >> misunderstanding.
    : >>
    : > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    : > I agree. He is merely making a DVD that has the DD audio on it.
    : > He is NOT making a DVD-Audio disc.
    : > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    :
    : No, he's apparently making a DVD-Audio disc (which is defined by the
    content
    : structure of the disc, not the content itself). You conveniently
    ignored
    : all of the points above, I can only surmise because they're
    deal-breakers
    : for you.
    :
    : Mike
    :
    :
     
    Richard C., Jun 3, 2004
    #82
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  3. Kryptoknight

    Mike Kohary Guest

    Seems that you're the one with a misunderstanding. Why couldn't it be
    created from DD or DTS? It doesn't matter what the source material is. If
    it ends up following the DVD-A spec and content format, it's DVD-A, simple
    as that.

    Don't be obtuse about this. You're wrong. I was wrong to start with too,
    but I admitted my error once it was pointed out to me. That's how grownups
    behave. Are you a grownup?

    Mike
     
    Mike Kohary, Jun 3, 2004
    #83
  4. Kryptoknight

    Mike Kohary Guest

    Why not?

    Mike
     
    Mike Kohary, Jun 3, 2004
    #84
  5. Kryptoknight

    Rich Clark Guest

    Which still begs the question: why? The only point of DVD-A is the high
    resolution, and the high sampling rates (along with the unique data
    structure) are the reason standard DVD players can't play them.

    If your source material is all sampled at rates within the range of standard
    DVD audio formats, be they PCM or DD or DTS, then there's no earthly reason
    to make a disc that will play only on a subset of all DVD players, when you
    could make a standard DVD with identical features and quality, using tools
    that cost nothing, that will play on any DVD player.

    If using lossy compression is what bothers you, stick with PCM. There are
    many DVD-A discs that come from 48kHz source material that still sound
    better than DD or DTS because DVD-A is less compressed.

    While I think you guys are largely arguing over semantics, I still don't get
    why the OP wants to use DVD-A in the first place.

    RichC
     
    Rich Clark, Jun 3, 2004
    #85
  6. Kryptoknight

    Kryptoknight Guest

    what don't you get? if i burn audio source down into dvd-a format onto a dvd
    disc, i have dvd-audio. what part of this don't you understand??? it may not
    be of the best quality possible from dvd-a, but it's in dvd-a format.
    period.
     
    Kryptoknight, Jun 4, 2004
    #86
  7. Kryptoknight

    Kryptoknight Guest

    because you didn't read every post, and i understand.

    i want to put 36 albums (6 cda "pcm" cd's per dvd) in my 6-cd changer in my
    dvd-a compliant cd/am/fm/cassette radio in my car.

    i believe Mike Kohary understands very well and has posted the basic points
    that:
    1) i can create dvd-a discs at home, using normal dvd-r media, discWelder
    Bronze, and my LG super-multi dvd burner.
    2) no arguments about how good dvd-a can be (that's defined by the
    sampling/bit rate of the dvd-a spec.
    3) i can rip the audio tracks off of a dvd movie disc and create a dvd-a
    disc.
    4) i can author my own 5.1 dvd-a using the highest possible sample/bit rate
    allowed for dvd-a (i have to create PCM).

    5) Richard C. simply does not get it, but that's why these groups exist....

    thanks for the debate,
    K
     
    Kryptoknight, Jun 4, 2004
    #87
  8. Kryptoknight

    Kryptoknight Guest

    yes, the Bronze version.
     
    Kryptoknight, Jun 4, 2004
    #88
  9. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    : Richard C. wrote:
    : > : >> Richard C. wrote:
    : >>> Your subject line is "How to create DVD-Audio disc".
    : >>>
    : >>> What you are doing is placing the normal DD or DTS tracks onto a
    : >>> DVD.
    : >>
    : >> ...in DVD-A format. What's so confusing about that?
    : >
    : > =======================
    : > No....it is NOT DVD-Audio format.
    : > Not in any way that I understand.
    : > DVD-Audio is not created from DD or DTS.
    :
    : Seems that you're the one with a misunderstanding. Why couldn't it be
    : created from DD or DTS? It doesn't matter what the source material
    is. If
    : it ends up following the DVD-A spec and content format, it's DVD-A,
    simple
    : as that.
    :
    : Don't be obtuse about this. You're wrong. I was wrong to start with
    too,
    : but I admitted my error once it was pointed out to me. That's how
    grownups
    : behave. Are you a grownup?
    :
    : Mike
    :
    ========================================
    Unless you can show me that the DVD-Audio track can be copied to a DVD
    and retain its high-resolution characteristics, I would not consider it
    DVD-Audio.

    Sorry.

    It is still just a DVD with DD/DTS on it.
    ==========================
    =========================================
     
    Richard C., Jun 4, 2004
    #89
  10. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    : Richard C. wrote:
    : >
    : > But a DVD with Audio created from DD and DTS is NOT DVD-Audio
    format.
    :
    : Why not?
    :
    : Mike
    :
    ======================
    Because DVD-Audio is high-resolution sound.
    It is NOT DD/DTS.

    If he copies the DVD-AUDIO to DVD, then I guess it would be.
    That is not what he has ever said he is doing.
    =======================
     
    Richard C., Jun 4, 2004
    #90
  11. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    :
    : : > Richard C. wrote:
    : > > : > >>
    : > >> Did any of you guys actually read the link he posted? If so, and
    : > >> you still think this information is wrong, why?
    : > >>
    : > > ==================
    : > > Because the site he referred to clearly states that the software
    : > > required to do what they are talking about costs $495 and $2495.
    : >
    : > So? What does the price have to do with anything?
    : >
    : > > He is STILL not making a DVD-Audio disc.
    : > > He is merely making a DVD that has the DD audio on it.
    : >
    : > He's doing it in DVD-A format, which makes it a DVD-A.
    :
    : Which still begs the question: why? The only point of DVD-A is the
    high
    : resolution, and the high sampling rates (along with the unique data
    : structure) are the reason standard DVD players can't play them.
    :
    : If your source material is all sampled at rates within the range of
    standard
    : DVD audio formats, be they PCM or DD or DTS, then there's no earthly
    reason
    : to make a disc that will play only on a subset of all DVD players,
    when you
    : could make a standard DVD with identical features and quality, using
    tools
    : that cost nothing, that will play on any DVD player.

    ==================
    Exactly!
    ==================
    :
    : If using lossy compression is what bothers you, stick with PCM. There
    are
    : many DVD-A discs that come from 48kHz source material that still sound
    : better than DD or DTS because DVD-A is less compressed.

    ===============
    The whole point of DVD-Audio!
    ===============
    :
    : While I think you guys are largely arguing over semantics, I still
    don't get
    : why the OP wants to use DVD-A in the first place.
    :
    : RichC
    :
    ================
    Nor do I.
    ================
     
    Richard C., Jun 4, 2004
    #91
  12. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    : because you didn't read every post, and i understand.
    :
    : i want to put 36 albums (6 cda "pcm" cd's per dvd) in my 6-cd changer
    in my
    : dvd-a compliant cd/am/fm/cassette radio in my car.
    :
    : i believe Mike Kohary understands very well and has posted the basic
    points
    : that:
    : 1) i can create dvd-a discs at home, using normal dvd-r media,
    discWelder
    : Bronze, and my LG super-multi dvd burner.
    : 2) no arguments about how good dvd-a can be (that's defined by the
    : sampling/bit rate of the dvd-a spec.
    : 3) i can rip the audio tracks off of a dvd movie disc and create a
    dvd-a
    : disc.
    : 4) i can author my own 5.1 dvd-a using the highest possible sample/bit
    rate
    : allowed for dvd-a (i have to create PCM).
    :
    : 5) Richard C. simply does not get it, but that's why these groups
    exist....

    =======================
    All of the things you are trying to do can be done using standard DVD-R
    techniques, correct?

    If so, why even mess with a phony DVD-Audio that does not meet the high
    resolution standards?
    =====================
    :
    : thanks for the debate,
    : K
    :
    :
    : : >
    : > : > > Richard C. wrote:
    : > > > : > > >>
    : > > >> Did any of you guys actually read the link he posted? If so,
    and
    : > > >> you still think this information is wrong, why?
    : > > >>
    : > > > ==================
    : > > > Because the site he referred to clearly states that the software
    : > > > required to do what they are talking about costs $495 and $2495.
    : > >
    : > > So? What does the price have to do with anything?
    : > >
    : > > > He is STILL not making a DVD-Audio disc.
    : > > > He is merely making a DVD that has the DD audio on it.
    : > >
    : > > He's doing it in DVD-A format, which makes it a DVD-A.
    : >
    : > Which still begs the question: why? The only point of DVD-A is the
    high
    : > resolution, and the high sampling rates (along with the unique data
    : > structure) are the reason standard DVD players can't play them.
    : >
    : > If your source material is all sampled at rates within the range of
    : standard
    : > DVD audio formats, be they PCM or DD or DTS, then there's no earthly
    : reason
    : > to make a disc that will play only on a subset of all DVD players,
    when
    : you
    : > could make a standard DVD with identical features and quality, using
    tools
    : > that cost nothing, that will play on any DVD player.
    : >
    : > If using lossy compression is what bothers you, stick with PCM.
    There are
    : > many DVD-A discs that come from 48kHz source material that still
    sound
    : > better than DD or DTS because DVD-A is less compressed.
    : >
    : > While I think you guys are largely arguing over semantics, I still
    don't
    : get
    : > why the OP wants to use DVD-A in the first place.
    : >
    : > RichC
    : >
    : >
    :
    :
     
    Richard C., Jun 4, 2004
    #92
  13. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    OK....
    Then what will it actually create?
    What maximum bit/rate and what number of bits?

    Is it actually creating them from a DVD-Audio track or merely from a CD?

    That is where our big misunderstanding is coming from.

    ================================
    : yes, the Bronze version.
    :
    : : > : > : what exactly then (in your odd words) does discWelder Steel,
    Chrome
    : > and
    : > : Bronze do ???
    : > :
    : > =================
    : > Do you HAVE one of them?
    : > =====================
    : >
    : >
    :
    :
     
    Richard C., Jun 4, 2004
    #93
  14. Kryptoknight

    Rich Clark Guest

    I don't dispute any of that.

    My question is simply this: If your player can play DVD-A, then it can play
    DVD-V. All of the kinds of recordings you want to put on your DVD-A discs
    could, even more easily, be put on DVD-V discs. You wouldn't lose any audio
    quality, because none of your sources exceed the capabilities of standard
    DVDs.

    Why make discs that can only be played on a DVD-A capable player, instead of
    discs that can be played on any DVD player, when there's nothing to be
    gained by doing so?

    RichC
     
    Rich Clark, Jun 4, 2004
    #94
  15. Kryptoknight

    Kryptoknight Guest

    you mean high res PCM, either PCM or LPCM using MLP for 5.1 (the spec for
    dvd-a)

    i can rip DD or DTS from a dvd video disc, but i agree with you and others
    that DD and DTS uses lossy compression, so be it, all i said is that i could
    do it, preserving 5.1 when it went back down onto dvd using dvd-a format !!
     
    Kryptoknight, Jun 4, 2004
    #95
  16. Kryptoknight

    Rich Clark Guest

    Well, you're not quite right about that. DVD-A is *capable* of being high
    resolution, but it doesn't have to be.

    And no, it's not DD or DTS, but that's beside the point (and I don't think
    anyone is claiming that the DTS or DD tracks on a commercial DVD-A are part
    of what makes it a DVD-A).

    Remember that DVD-Audio can sound superior not just because of high
    resolution, but also because of less compression. There are a number of
    DVD-A discs that come from 48kHz (or less) sources (such as the new,
    magnificent Porcupine Tree "In Absentia 5.1" or most remasters of older
    material); they're DVD-A because of support for multichannel, of course, but
    even if they were stereo they would potentially sound better than a DD or
    DTS version, not because of resolution but because of compression.

    There are, of course, quite a lot of 2-channel SACDs remastered from
    standard-resolution source material. There's no intrinsic reason the same
    couldn't be done on DVD-A; that it's not is due to marketing decisions, not
    technology limitations.

    The analogy with making a DVD from a VHS tape is valid. The resulting
    content is, in fact, DVD Video even though most of the capabilities of the
    format are wasted. A DVD-Audio copy of a wax cylinder would still be
    DVD-Audio. It would have all the bandwidth and resolution of DVD-A, despite
    sounding exactly like a scratchy mono source with limited frequency response
    and no dynamic range.

    RichC

    RichC
     
    Rich Clark, Jun 4, 2004
    #96
  17. Kryptoknight

    Kryptoknight Guest

    you mean copy 6 cda (pcm) audio cd's onto one dvd-r. well, i could try that,
    but i want dvd-a so i could get 5.1 either by authoring my own or ripping
    5.1 from other media.

    i'd also have to check to see if my dvd car player can play other format
    types from dvd other than dvd-a. it can read regular audio cd's.
     
    Kryptoknight, Jun 4, 2004
    #97
  18. Kryptoknight

    Kryptoknight Guest

    i can create my own PCM (LPCm or just PCM) using any dvd-a spec that it
    supports, and Bronze will write that to dvd in dvd-a format.

    i'm using memory here:
    stereo max 192Khz/48bit
    5.1 max 48Khz/24bit

    i dont understand what you mean "from dvd-a".
     
    Kryptoknight, Jun 4, 2004
    #98
  19. Kryptoknight

    Kryptoknight Guest

    i made dvd-a discs for my TL, works awesome.


     
    Kryptoknight, Jun 4, 2004
    #99
  20. Kryptoknight

    Richard C. Guest

    : i can create my own PCM (LPCm or just PCM) using any dvd-a spec that
    it
    : supports, and Bronze will write that to dvd in dvd-a format.
    :
    : i'm using memory here:
    : stereo max 192Khz/48bit
    : 5.1 max 48Khz/24bit
    :
    : i dont understand what you mean "from dvd-a".

    ===============================
    I guess this whole confusion will only end when you find out what an
    actual commercial DVD-Audio disc sounds like when played through a
    DVD-Audio capable system.

    DVD-Audio is NOT the DD/DTS track. That is what I mean.
    DVD-Audio track is NOT DD/DTS track.
    You are not copying DVD-Audio tracks.

    i don't know how to make it more clear.
    ===================================
    :
    : : > OK....
    : > Then what will it actually create?
    : > What maximum bit/rate and what number of bits?
    : >
    : > Is it actually creating them from a DVD-Audio track or merely from a
    CD?
    : >
    : > That is where our big misunderstanding is coming from.
    : >
    : > ================================
    : > : > : yes, the Bronze version.
    : > :
    : > : : > : >
    : > : > : what exactly then (in your odd words) does discWelder Steel,
    : > Chrome
    : > : > and
    : > : > : Bronze do ???
    : > : > :
    : > : > =================
    : > : > Do you HAVE one of them?
    : > : > =====================
    : > : >
    : > : >
    : > :
    : > :
    : >
    : >
    :
    :
     
    Richard C., Jun 4, 2004
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