how long before fuel prices drop?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by richard, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    chuckcar added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    NOT by a long shot, my friend. But, hey, believe what pleases you
    as you continue to pay 1.5X what I do for your gas.
    A couple of conclusions. One is that we can't drill our way out
    of it and neither can you, no matter what fiction you want to
    believe from the kool-aid you're drinking. But, more importantly,
    instead of sending a $100B or so to the bad guys in the Middle
    East, we sent up around $700B/year when oil was above $140/barrel
    (but obviously less now). That is inflationary, contibutes to the
    erosion of the dollar's value, and is tough on the working poor.
    If the curve continues to go straight up, sooner or later them
    with the oil will figure out - if they haven't already - that
    they don't own an energy source, they own an economic weapon.
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 14, 2008
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  2. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    chuckcar added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    I don't WANT to use my tax dollars to pay for integrating
    immigrants into my country. If they can't pay, let them stay
    home. Or, let their relatives pay for it as they did 150 years
    ago. You Socialists simply must rid yourselves of the notion that
    government is a solution of anything. It isn't. It is the

    Everything on any countries budget with the exception of things
    like national defense are socialistic to one extent or another.
    e.g., who in Hell decided that education should be paid for by a
    central government? Or retirement, or healthcare, or, or, or.
    People have an uncanny expertise for being far more capable of
    spending their own money wisely than it ever gets spent when
    washed throught the outrageous inefficiency of the average
    government's bureaucracy - if there even are any efficient ones.

    Now, the less people demand "free", the smaller the size of the
    government becomes, thus reducing it's parasitic load on the GDP
    and it's citizens tax revenues. This inevitibly leads to higher
    productivity which provides more business profit which in turn
    spurs investment which provide more jobs all of which provide
    even more tax revenues. This is like a nuclear chain reaction,
    only positive and controlled. Compare that with the downward
    spiral of Socialist scams which can only top out at dead even but
    can NEVER produce wealth.

    Finally, who ever said the govenment at the local, county, state
    or Federal level has any responsibility for job training? This is
    far better done locally under the control of the taxpayers
    underwriting school districts and paying for LIMITED price
    advantages for universities and/or by the employers who need and
    want educated and trained employees.

    Gee, in my day 40 years ago, the idea was to excel in H.S., get
    one or more degrees in some field that isn't a breadless art -
    i.e., business will actually pay you for it - then go to work.
    While employed, work your ass off to improve your value to the
    company, get promoted, and pull yourself up by your own
    bootstraps. People today are LAZY because they expect some sugar
    daddy to pay their way. Maybe that's Mom and Dad or maybe it's
    Big Government or both.

    Look, there's only so much money in any individual, business, or
    government's budget. The idea is to use it wisely.
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 14, 2008
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  3. richard

    Whiskers Guest

    VAT isn't hidden at all. People may not pay much attention to it as it's
    part of the environment, but no-one can be unaware of it. Many bills and
    invoices itemise it specifically. It isn't "socialist" either, it's just
    a tax.
    Whiskers, Oct 14, 2008
  4. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Whiskers added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    Let me state/ask it a different way. Is the tax at each step of
    the food chain clearly delineated on the price tag someplace? If
    not, it is a hidden tax. The U.S. flirted with VAT a couple times
    after seeing the "success" in Europe but citizens rebelled.

    The tax itself isn't socialist or Socialist or even Marxist all
    by itself, it is HOW it gets levied, WHY it does, and for WHAT
    purposes the money is really spent vs. how it is CLAIMED to be

    As to "many bills and invoices itemize it specifically", it would
    need to be ALL bills and invoices and ALL retail price tags
    especially those where unit or shelf pricing is used rather than
    product pricing, and statement(s) of taxes levied easily
    available in places where the end "product" appears to be a
    service such as a restaurant or computer or the like vs a true
    product meaning some sort of commodity.

    The notion is transparency, or lack thereof. I'll take our tax on
    individual incomes, business profits, and the various
    entitlements out of the picture for simplicity and concentrate
    only on the more germaine state sales taxes and things like the
    Federal gas tax/gallon which is moving toward a tax per mile
    driven because tax/gal is increasingly invalid and/or doesn't
    provide enough revenue.

    Then, there are property taxes that are primarily to run city,
    county, and state governments and various smallish use taxes such
    as driver license fees, boat and car title fees, annual license
    plate fees and the like. These things are pretty much based on
    value these days rather than the weight used 30+ years ago. With
    the revolution to very small cars in the late 1970s and into the
    1980s, states quickly found that formulas based on weight didn't
    cut the mustard.

    So, what does this have to do with anything? Well, gubmints
    facing imminent fiscal deficits but which have balanced budget
    laws or constitutions as more and more entities other than our
    Federal government do, the pols get increasingly creative and
    much more sneaky in increasing revenues in a way that doesn't
    cost them their jobs. But, at the end of the day, citizens must
    by definition approve of these taxes and fees because they failed
    to vote the bums out of office that levied them.

    The thing that most causes people to just grin and bear it,
    though, is the notion that a) somebody else other than them is
    somehow paying for it, like them rich fat cats and b) they're
    hooked on the "drugs" of "free" goods and services.

    What goes around comes around, and even free market system,
    allegedly what we have in the U.S., still have significant
    socialistic origins as well as incessant tinkering to accomplish
    social goals and attempt over time to make things somehow at
    least SEEM to be fair.
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 14, 2008
  5. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    Today's terrorist is tomorrow's statesman: Jomo Kenyatta, Nobel Laureate
    Menachem Begin, who in 1947 had a price put on his head by the British
    Mandate in Palestine as a terrorist, Gerry Adams, also a Nobel Laureate,
    erstwhile bigwig in the Northern Command of the I.R.A. How the world
    turns, eh?

    I could tell you some stuff about that, but definitely not in an open
    forum such as a newsgroup :). Echelon is listening.

    I learnt many years ago never to say anything over the telephone that you
    wouldn't happily shout across a crowded room. Heaven forfend that I write
    the same stuff on t' internet :)

    By way of digression, of a sort: two books I would recommend if you ever
    wish to acquire a greater knowledge of the basis of both the Arab-Israeli
    conflict and the present-day mind-sets of both communities in the North
    of Ireland, both by Leon Uris and therefore novels and damned good reads
    to boot. 'Exodus' and 'Trinity'
    Aardvark, Oct 14, 2008
  6. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Aardvark added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    A good saying is "say it in ink but never in E-mail or on Usenet.
    Pretty much, if you post on Usenet it is available to the entire
    galaxy until our sun goes out or super novas.
    Just recorded the 1960 movie version of "Exodus" to my DVR. It's
    been a while since I've seen it. I haven't had time to read
    novels since I was trying to pass the time in the Army reading
    such tomes as "Atlas Shrugged".

    BTW, Henry Ford II is quoted as saying this when he was stopped
    by Michigan State troopers for speeding on I-94 near Ford's
    Dearborn HQ with his girlfriend in the car while he was still
    married to his first wife:

    "never explain, never complain". I doubt Catherine Ford agreed
    when she took a piece out of his hide in the divorce settlement
    or when he later married girlfriend Kathy DuRoss. Story goes back
    to the 1970s I think some time before he canned Lee Iacocca with
    a caustic "sometimes you just don't like a guy."
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 14, 2008
  7. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    Yup, I'm with you all the way with that.
    I've heard the book referred to on a number of occasions and it has
    finally piqued my interest, so it's a-marching off to the library for me
    some day this week:)

    Movies are all well and good, but one's imagination is limited by the
    size of the screen one is staring at. I much prefer to read the book
    which enables me to insert my own images and not those of a director,
    however good he is.
    Funny. I read that many years ago and found it to my taste, shortly
    thereafter inserting it into my overall philosophy (of life, the universe
    and everything).

    Well, everyone feels like that occasionally.
    Aardvark, Oct 14, 2008
  8. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Aardvark added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    Ayn Rand's philosophy was called "Objectivism" and she wrote the
    first treatise on it in an earlier novel called "The
    Fountainhead." There's a 1948 movie starring Gary Cooper that
    does a good job of portraying the salient notion.

    "Atlas Shrugged" fully fleshed out Objectivism and is the one
    with the really interesting example of exactly why Marxism fails
    so miserably. But, the entire novel is one of several written in
    the late 1940s describing futuristic totalitarian societies of
    one sort or the other. In Atlas, the entire country's
    infrastructure is about gone and nothing more is being
    manufactured or served and the story is about how it was fixed.

    Other black sci fi novels of that era include George Orwell's
    seminal "1984" with Big Brother and Aldus Huxley's "Brave New
    World" with it's human cloning of babies coming from a tube.
    I agree. To fully appreciate a story like "Atlas Shrugged" really
    does require reading some 1100 pages and has never been made into
    a movie probably because there is no fasible way to tell the
    story. I suppose it could be made into some sort of TV mini
    series but never has been. Trouble with reading for busy people
    is just finding the time to do it, although plenty of people are
    Hank the Deuce was a rather unique fellow.
    Yeah, but to fire somebody who had produced so many outstanding
    products and generated so many billions in profits the old
    fashioned way is short-sighted at best. But, the real reason,
    same as firing short lived president Bunkie Knudsen who came over
    from GM and had the job before Iacocca, was that Henry was a
    power mad egotist and couldn't stand anyone working for him that
    stole his thunder.

    My mother was fond of saying "what happens, happens for the
    best" and I have always found that to be true. In the case of Lee
    Iacocca, he was canned just as my company, Chrysler, was about to
    fall on its face. Lee rescued it with the help of the 1979 Loan
    Guarantee Act, paid every penny back 5 years early but tended to
    short shrift product advances in order to keep costs down and his
    bonus high. He was forced to retire at age 65, the board from in
    Bob Eaton from GM who was a mediocre manager at best, but managed
    to sell the company to Daimler-Benz AG in 1998 and net himself a
    $25M+ golden parachute for his efforts.
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 14, 2008
  9. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    Two of my favourite books (including 'Animal Farm by Orwell/ Eric Blair).

    In 'Brave New World' Huxley has a food supplement for the masses called
    'soma' which seems to work like a hallucinogen and is used by the
    authorities to keep the masses docile enough to control.

    The idea of this drug was based on LSD-25, to which Huxley had access in
    the late fifties and early sixties through a scientist friend who was on
    the testing program for the drug. After his first trip he wrote two short
    books (usually sold under one cover), 'Doors to Perception' and 'Heaven
    and Hell', describing his feelings during this and subsequent acid trips.
    You've heard of Jim Morrison, of course. A big Huxley fan :)

    Huxley died on Friday November 22nd 1963 (a date with which you may be
    familiar). On his deathbed he asked for, and was administered a dose of
    LSD-25. The guy went out on a high :)

    Could this be your new piece of useless knowledge for the day :)?
    Aardvark, Oct 14, 2008
  10. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Aardvark added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    I forgot about "Animal Farm" probably because I've never liked
    satire. Intersting that "Alice in Wonderland" was also satire
    aimed at, I think the English Crown, but few ever knew it. The
    key phrase in all of "Animal" surely is "all animals are created
    equal but some are more equal than others." a not so oblique
    reference to "separate but equal" discrimination in our South for
    100 years after the Civil War.
    Probably where the author of the story in "Soylent Green".
    Didn't know that but then it has been a LONG time since I read
    the book and I don't think I ever knew much about Huxley. LSD had
    been discovered in the search for a real cure of disease and like
    so many good inventions, including morphine for pain, it quickly
    became bastardized and eventually needed to be made illegal.
    Yeah, the day JFK was shot in Dallas. Never knew about this
    coincidence because, as I said, I knew nothing about Huxley or
    Orwell or Rand for that matter.

    BTW, a later couple of excellent examples of the same genre of
    sci fi are "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin and "The Devil's
    Desciple" by Taylor Caldwell. My feeble brain is failing me, I
    may have mentioned those already ...
    Could be! Don't know about useless but probably at least trivia.
    Mine for yesterday was discovering that our pols actually DID put
    in specifics to prevent raping the American taxpayers with
    bailouts. Apparently, all the stuff announced so far comes with
    strings on it prohibiting executive bonuses, stock options, or
    golden parachutes during any period for a given company is
    receiving public aid.

    Don't know about Fannie and Freddie that are viewed differently.
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 15, 2008
  11. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    More a reference to post-revolution Russia, I've been led to believe, but
    I dare say the phrase could be applied to any supposedly 'Communist',
    'Socialist' or even 'Democratic' political system. Sort of, 'if the hat
    fits then let 'im wear it' :).

    Alice Liddell (the Alice in the books) lived with her family about three
    miles from where I sit in the hamlet of Daresbury, Cheshire (pronounced
    Darz-burr-ee, Chesh-eer :)). Her father was a the vicar at Daresbury and
    one of his closest friends was Charles Ludwidge Dodgson, a professor of
    Mathematics at Oxford University. He visited the Liddells often and
    befriended Alice. He used to make up stories for the girl with Alice as
    the heroine of these stories, to keep her amused.

    It was suggested to him that he write these tales down and have them
    published which he did. Rather than use his own name as author on the
    cover(it wouldn't have been fitting for a highly-respected professor of
    mathematics at Oxford to be known as a writer of books which indulged
    children, lord no!), he employed the following method to create a nom-de-

    Took his Christian names and Latinised them. Charles Ludwidge became
    'Carolus Ludovicus'. He then reversed them and re-Anglicised them, and
    'Carolus Ludovicus' became 'Lewis Carroll'!

    At one time I possessed his complete works (everything about Alice,
    poems, rhymes, short stories) but lent it to someone (I forget who,
    dammit!) and never saw it again. The last section of the book is full of
    clever mathematical problems which I spent many fun and frustrating hours
    trying to solve, and also somewhere therein was a biography of the man.
    An interesting and likeable character, was Professor Dodgson!
    One of my long-held suspicions. Loved Edward G. in the movie. In fact,
    loved Edward G. period :)

    Jim Morrison and the 'Doors' (to perception, geddit?)
    Sometimes if I read a book and enjoy it and read others by the same
    author, I tend to like to know more about the author himself, and will
    endeavour to find out as much as possible about where he's coming from,
    his possible motives and so on. Because of this I have read a number of
    autobiographies (some quite obscure :)).

    If you ever want to get a handle on the evolution of modern franchise
    marketing you could do far worse than read the biography of Ray Kroc,
    'Grinding it Out'. Kroc was the guy who made McDonald's what it is today
    and the book is an interesting read (there I go digressing again :)).
    I know I've read 'Rosemary's Baby' and suspect I may have read 'This
    Perfect Day', but feeble brains are much more common than one would give
    credit for :). I may also have read the Caldwell book, but again, may I
    plead approaching senility? Also I have a case of 'man-flu' coming on and
    don't feel 100% today :)
    Aardvark, Oct 15, 2008
  12. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    Forgot to comment on this bit. It's nice to see that the Bush admin has
    attached conditions to the bail-out. When it was first announced it
    seemed that they were just going to hand over globs of taxpayers' cash
    and let them get on with it. So that's a relief, somewhat.

    As for my trivial knowledge (that's how I honestly think of it: a head
    full of shit that nobody really needs or wants to know), the only time it
    ever comes in useful for more than a few moments is on quiz night in the
    local pub. I get a number of free drinks just for sitting at a table with
    a particular quiz team. You should hear them arguing over where I'm gonna
    sit at the start of the night: "Steve's sitting with us!". "No he's not!
    He's sitting here!". A voice from the back is heard "Hey, Steve! There's
    a seat over here for ya!". As if I'm incapable of making such a simple
    decision myself :). He who offers the best 'Welcome Steve' package gets
    the pleasure of my company for the evening :)

    Funny thing is, any other time I can sit quietly in a corner on my own if
    I wish and nobody says a peep :) Strange, that:)
    Aardvark, Oct 15, 2008
  13. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Aardvark added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    Moving from right to left (back asswards) I might say full
    democracy, republic (US), heavily regulated republic, socialist
    state, Socialist with a captital "S" and then Marxist which is
    heavily into wealth distribution. In keeping with my penchant of
    simplification in order to be able to understand and talk about
    very complex political and economic/finance issues, communism is
    a very close cousing to Marxism but Communism as practiced in
    both the USSR and it's satellites and the People's Republic of
    China were/are still quite different.

    It is useful to note that Orwell's "1984" society and the USSR
    both used the concept of a proletariat and a bourgeroisis [sp?]
    Russian Commisars are an example of the latter and maybe people
    forced into farming collectives under Stalin maybe the former.
    So, those are political as well as economic distinctions that
    severely mangle the underlying assumptions starting with the
    Communist Manifesto assumtion of "to each according to their
    needs, from each according to their abilities." Note that there's
    a mental gear change necessary to move from Karl Marx's book to
    the implemented systems and also please note that the Manifesto
    idea I just quoted again is a vastly simplified micro economic
    fudge of what was a very complex macro economic system.

    In ANY political system, there will ALWAYS be some sort of lower
    class (poor), middle class (working) and upper class
    (rich/wealth) so there is in reality always a bit of capitalism
    involved. I cannot see how politicians who claim that everything
    is owned by the people but not exactly fairly distributed can
    make it work otherwise.

    A very insidious side-effect of all of this is that talking in
    terms of "classes" immediately connotes the concept of "class
    warfare" which is being bandied about during our election cycle
    by both sides - but obviously from different perspectives.
    Really?! I'll take it for granted that you have no motive to be
    deceptive in your discussion of literature, so I value your
    stories. Goes to my "learn something new everyday" plans.
    Interesting, very interesting. What's your take on the degree of
    satire involved. From my side of the pond, we have been led to
    believe by our English Literature teachers that The Wicked Witch
    of the North was the Queen at some point. Don't know who the
    Wizard of Oz, a presumed benevolent wizard was, nor Alice, the
    Tinman, the Cowardly Lion, and the Scarecrow and the 1939 (?)
    Movie with Judy Garland hardly tells you.

    As an aside to Alice, take note of the song "White Rabbit" by
    Jefferson Airplane talking about Alice and her pills plus "those
    of mother which did nothing at all" referring to the use of
    marijuana, heroin, and mainly LSD. There are many other songs on
    the US pop charts but this one uses political satire and the
    Alice metaphor to promote the Timothy Leary lifestyle.

    It really is true that what goes around does come around, doncha
    Yeah, but it was the former President of the NRA, Charlton
    Heston, who cried "Soylent green, it's PEOPLE" at the end. But,
    you're right, Edward G. was magnificent. He was quite ill when
    the movie was made,in fact dying. He desperately wanted to
    complete the movie, the story being so compelling to him, that he
    had parts of it shot out of sequence to work around his illness.
    I'd have to Google my brains out, but I believe that Robinson
    died within 3 weeks but can't recall whether that was 3 weeks
    after production ended or 3 weeks after it was released (think it
    was the former).
    Yes, that one slipped right past me, Aardvark, thanks. I was a
    big fan of the Doors back in them days.

    I'll tell you about my only foray into recreational drugs. I was
    stationed in West Germany while in the US Army circa 1971.
    Hashish, not marijuana and certainly not heroin, was the drug of
    choice because it packed more of a wallop and could be easier
    hidden in the barracks.

    The first time I tried it, mixed with tobacco in a pipe known as
    "toking or smoking a bowl", nothing at all happened. The second
    time I thought I was OK until the friend that was hosting what I
    thought was a drinking party with just a bowl or two asked me to
    change the record - remember vinyl records? - on his turntable.
    When I walked toward it, it zipped away from my at supersonic
    speed. I thought Whoa! and stepped back, and the damn thing came
    rushing back at me like a freight train!

    Turned out that my "friend" had intentionally bought some hash
    laced with speed and me plus another friend in the Army were the
    entertainment for the night. The other guy became convinced that
    the 2nd floor apartment wall had been blown away and wouldn't
    step beyond the sofa.

    I decided that a good German stein of beer was much better for
    I did read both Animal Farm and Brave New World as well as saw
    the movies. At the time when I was in Engineering school, there
    just wasn't time for research and that was 40+ years ago.
    Again, I appreciate the info and envy the time you have/had to
    read this stuff. My knowledge of Ray Kroc is more along the lines
    of the History Channel episode on McDonald's. Suffice to say that
    the major fast food innovators including Col. Sanders and the
    founder of Domino's Pizza were very innovative and colorful
    I still have "This Perfect Day". I tried reading "Atlas
    Shrugged" from our local library a year or two back but just
    couldn't devote the time.

    Caldwell's book was about yet another quintessential totalitarian
    state but her thesis was that the way it was defeated was by a
    secret orgainization of KGB types that intentionally opprossed
    the citizenry in a given region. The idea was to foment discord
    and insurrection. For the bulk of the end of the book, the
    protagonist was captured and tortured by the evil State much as
    Winston Smith was in "1984", but unlike Smith, Caldwell's
    character was able to discover a way out of it. Think I still
    have that one in my basement as well.

    After college, and a year later after being drafted into the
    Army, I had LOTS of time to read every time we went on a month
    field assignment because there was literally nothing to do for
    hours and hours and hours including when I was on duty making
    sure a microwave radio system was operating. So, I'd buy a dozen
    novels from the PX to take with me. I was able to read a great
    number of thrillers and read or re-read a number of great sci fi
    works. For lots of this, such as "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas
    Shrugged" plus "This Perfect Day" and "The Devil's Desciple", it
    was the very first time I'd read them.
    After I look at your second post, it'll be time to look in on
    today's market frenzy.
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 15, 2008
  14. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Aardvark added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    I think your people showed much more leadership and transparency
    than did mine on this one. While your bailouts are far larger in
    relative terms than yours, this is one time when being a
    Socialist is an advantage.

    In our system, at least up to now, the most socialistic president
    we've ever had was Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Compared to him
    prior administrations and those that came later were much tamer.
    On the Right side, up until President Bush who abandoned what
    little principles of the Republican party were still left in
    order to prosecute the war in Iraq, his core beliefs and values
    system was still to be low regulation, small government, free
    market oriented. He did at least attempt to rein in some of the
    excesses earlier in his first term but couldn't get much traction
    even though he controlled both houses of Congress until the mid-
    term election of 2006 when the Democrates regained control.

    So, Bush's very strong tendency would be/was/still is to minimize
    regulation and maximize letting the market run free. He noticed
    but failed miserably to take decisive action when then Chariman
    of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan a fiscal conservative,
    warned Congress and the American people to the threat of sub-
    prime mortgages as early as 2004. Two different bills circulated
    through Congress to implement Greenspan's recommendations, one in
    2004 and the other in 2005 but both died after coming out of
    committee. Some pre-vote skirmishing was done live on C-SPAN but
    I don't recall seeing the end votes. After 2006, there was no
    chance once the "give everybody a cheap home loan" crowd came
    into power. The majority party controls the all-important
    committees and sub-committees thus there were essentially no
    oversight hearings held
    My wife and daughter detest my anecdotes and trivia knowledge but
    I think it is important that I at least try to keep my ear to the
    I think it was just an accident that we "met", so to speak, when
    you first began replying when I jumped in late to the oil price
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 15, 2008
  15. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    Hehe! I FEEL ya, bro :)
    I'm a bit of a fatalist. I feel that nothing happens without a reason,
    where we are today is a result of all that has gone before. This
    philosophy is proved to me by events in my life all the time, and
    therefore constantly reinforced. These events are invariably to someone's
    Aardvark, Oct 15, 2008
  16. richard

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Aardvark added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    I believe that things don't just happen, there's always a reason.
    But, I also believe that God doesn't micro manage. I am also not a
    fatalist but am a pessimest about some things and an optimist about
    others. I may be insane, but I'm definitely not crazy!
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 15, 2008
  17. richard

    chuckcar Guest

    Sorry, no. Our gas is $1.00 per gallon *after* tax.
    Again with the right wing anti-socialist rant. God, how bloody provincial
    Yanks are.
    chuckcar, Oct 16, 2008
  18. richard

    chuckcar Guest

    I never said that. I only said that the US gets most of it's oil from
    Canada. Hardly even *close* to the same thing.
    The *problem* is your republicans cancelling Carters permanent fix for the
    problem - greater fuel efficiency. When he left office the US was
    independent of imports - i.e. didn't need any. By the time Reagan got the
    boot, it was back to square one again.
    chuckcar, Oct 16, 2008
  19. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    By fatalist I meant that fate and what sometimes appears as coincidence
    plays (or appears to me to play) a large part in my life and, if I ask
    the right questions of the right people (cryptic, I know, but this means
    something to ME), I discover that given a particular set of circumstances
    in which they currently find themselves, they have a tendency to agree.

    Others might call it God's intervention when someone is in need (even if
    the person doesn't realise it him- or herself).
    Aardvark, Oct 16, 2008
  20. richard

    Aardvark Guest

    And I consider myself the eternal optimist (SWMBO would say an optimist
    of the Mr. Micawber variety :)).
    Aardvark, Oct 16, 2008
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