Homeplug to *extend* a network?

Discussion in 'Home Networking' started by Nozza, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    There is an alternative. It's only one particular chipset that causes
    this and even then, it's only Comtrend who are the main problem. Other
    PLT devices use RF notches to reduce or completely eliminate RFI in
    pre-assigned bands listed in the UK bandplan.
    Doesn't even need to be unused. There's a UKQRM video on Youtube that
    shows you how. Watch from 9 minutes in:


    Its propogated by the ring main. Basically, it turns the entire house
    mains wiring into one big antenna. The cables are unshielded so radiate
    the RF signal.
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
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  2. As a qualified radio engineer and as a radio amateur operator with more
    experience than the years that you have been breathing, the only thing on
    which I can not compete with you in this discussion is your potty mouth.

    Anthony R. Gold, Aug 3, 2009
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  3. Nozza

    Jon Guest

    Yes to both.
    You need 2 minimum, so buy a pair to start with. Thereafter you can just
    add another one, or another 2 etc. Doesn't matter how many you have
    Same here. I have 4, work well.
    Don't know, never tried.
    Jon, Aug 3, 2009
  4. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Of course you are.....

    Shame your replies amply demonstrate otherwise.
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
  5. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    They're made by a Spanish company called DS2. Being Spanish, they don't
    give a shit about breaking European law hence the current problems.
    The UK is slightly different to the US to some extent. Also in some US
    locations as well as Australia, broadband is fed throughout overhead
    mains cables to peoples homes too hence power line in the true sense of
    the word.

    No. The only way to eliminate it would be to shield the mains wiring in
    the house in the same way co-ax is.
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
  6. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    You'll not mind telling me your callsign so I can check against the
    RSGB database then?
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
  7. Is there really some RSGB database other than the callbook which indexes
    licence holders both by callsign and by name (but which costs money)?

    I'll answer that question if 1) you promise to stop cursing and 2) you
    either cite some actual offence that a user of interfering CE marked
    Homeplugs is committing or just have the modesty to admit that you don't
    know of any.

    BTW "spectrum abuse" is not a phrase of words to be found anywhere in UK
    legislation, let alone is it present there as some kind of offence.


    Anthony R. Gold, Aug 4, 2009
  8. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Ofcom produced one.
    I already have. From Ofcoms very mouth "Radio Spectrum Abuse".
    I can only go on what the regulatory body have stated. Just because
    you've not found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist especially as most
    people lose the will to live trying to navigate any uk.gov website.
    Conor, Aug 4, 2009
  9. Nozza

    Rob Morley Guest

    Why do you think they're more secure? Both WiFi and Homeplug use
    128-bit AES encryption, which is significantly more of a barrier to
    exploitation than physical access. Homeplug can often be heard some
    distance from the house, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult to
    listen in anyway with a directional antenna and an RF amplifier.
    Rob Morley, Aug 4, 2009
  10. Nozza

    Rob Morley Guest

    I expect wireless could be made to work in some cases where it doesn't
    work easily, although I'm not sure how you align a pair of cantennas
    when there are walls blocking your line of sight.
    Rob Morley, Aug 4, 2009
  11. Nozza

    Rob Morley Guest

    More relevant is how many people go wardriving with a directional
    antenna, as they're the sort of people you should be worrying about
    when it comes to security. Maybe Homeplug users are more likely to
    think they don't need to change the default encryption key, because
    they think the signal won't escape the building.
    Rob Morley, Aug 4, 2009
  12. Nozza

    Clint Sharp Guest

    Well, only where some muppet has homeplugs installed. I'm fairly
    fortunate so far..
    Oh yes, street lights radiating all sorts of mush, lovely.
    Never been a boat anchor fan I'm afraid but I do occasionally dig out
    the R1000 and string a length of wire across the garden..
    Clint Sharp, Aug 5, 2009
  13. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    You only have to live within a 500m radius.
    Conor, Aug 5, 2009
  14. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Yes. One of the UKQRM youtube vidoes shows him demonstrating Comtrend
    but also stating he was picking up noise from an Advent one, although
    less intrusive.
    I think its a case of "making them aware" of the problem then they
    can't complain if they decide to go with them and Ofcom pay a visit.
    Many people will be able to use them without affecting anyone else due
    to the fact nobody within the signal area uses HF as your former lack
    of awareness of the issue demonstrates.

    However, a proof of concept of someone managing to get onto a network
    that uses these things has come to light. The encryption key has been
    cracked and the units can't differentiate from the RF signal produced
    by another unit plugged into the mains or a RF signal picked up from an
    external source by the mains cable.
    Conor, Aug 5, 2009
  15. Nozza

    Rob Morley Guest

    I don't have anything bookmarked and Google isn't helping. Conor said
    he'd seen something about the proof of concept, which is AFAIK all it
    is ATM.
    Rob Morley, Aug 6, 2009
  16. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Yes, it's proof of concept basically due to the transmitter power
    levels required.
    Conor, Aug 6, 2009
  17. Nozza

    Rob Morley Guest

    I forgot you were talking about actually hacking the network - I was
    talking about eavesdropping, which should be easier.
    Rob Morley, Aug 6, 2009
  18. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Ah, yes. Effectively they can be received up to 500m but it depends on
    what frequency you're listening on as they're stronger on some than
    Conor, Aug 6, 2009
  19. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Indeed. Well my complaint has been solved. Thought something had
    happened when the noise disappeared just before the weekend but this
    afternoon, the Ofcom Field Engineer dealing with my complaint phoned me
    to ask if I'd noticed a change.

    It would appear that BT supplied different PLT adapters that DON'T
    interfere with HF so they do have them but are reluctant to issue them
    however are more than happy to punt gear in the full knowledge that its
    operating illegally.
    Conor, Aug 13, 2009
  20. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Thanks. I'll get round to there in a little bit. Its on my list of
    daily site visits.
    Conor, Aug 14, 2009
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