Homeplug to *extend* a network?

Discussion in 'Home Networking' started by Nozza, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. Nozza

    Nozza Guest

    I am thinking of using homeplug to extend an existing netwrok.
    everything on the network is working fine, there's simply a room where
    I can't get access to the wired and wireless network.

    If I were to buy two homeplug adapters, one for the currently
    inaccessible room, and one to attach to the existing router, would the
    homeplugged computer be able to access all the other network devices
    and would the other devices be able to access the homeplugged
    computer?

    I have looked around and all the homepluggy examples show a
    homeplugged network where all devices use vast arrays of homeplugs ;)

    Am thinking of getting "Twin Pack 85Mb Homeplug Ethernet Adapter" -
    the 85MB fine for what I want at the mo.

    Does homeplug "mix and match" okay?

    Thanks

    Noz
     
    Nozza, Aug 1, 2009
    #1
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  2. Nozza

    Nozza Guest

    Brill

    That's what I assumed - but I wanted clarification :)

    Thanks for taking the time to reply

    Noz
     
    Nozza, Aug 1, 2009
    #2
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  3. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Don't.

    They are the spawn of Satan and wipe out everything from 1Mhz to 50Mhz
    within a 200 yard radius of your house - basically all HF radio.

    If you're close to someone like me who uses amateur radio and you cause
    them interference, expect a knock on the door from Ofcom for committing
    the offence of "Radio Spectrum Abuse".

    The first 20 seconds of this video show the absolute fucking racket
    these things make all over HF radio.

    Googe BPL PLT interference.
     
    Conor, Aug 1, 2009
    #3
  4. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Wrong. Ethernet doesn't wipe out HF radio within a 200 yard radius.

     
    Conor, Aug 1, 2009
    #4
  5. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Oh fucking great. Another person using these illegal contraptions.
     
    Conor, Aug 1, 2009
    #5
  6. Nozza

    Nozza Guest

    How to make friends and *influence* people

    ;)

    Noz
     
    Nozza, Aug 2, 2009
    #6
  7. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Yes.

    For subsection (5) of section 19 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949

    (5A)

    b) it degrades, obstructs or repeatedly interrupts anything which is
    being broadcast or otherwise transmitted?

    (i) by means of wireless telegraphy; and

    (ii) in accordance with a licence under this Act, regulations under the
    proviso to section 1(1) of this Act or a grant of recognised spectrum
    access under Chapter 2 of Part 2 of the Communications Act 2003 or
    otherwise lawfully.?


    It does part (ii) by causing massive interference on parts of the
    spectrum used by Amateur Radio and governmental departments for HF
    broadcast. If the BBC World Service was still broadcast within the UK,
    it'd obliterate that too.

    The Ofcom engineer that visited me to investigate a complaint I made
    against someone living two streets away said that they were causing
    interference and were committing the offence of "Radio Spectrum Abuse".

    Also Ofcom have a page dedicated to it which states that it has to
    comply with EMC regulations which they clearly are not doing.

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/enforcement/plt/
     
    Conor, Aug 2, 2009
    #7
  8. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    It is all shortwave communications from approximately 1Mhz through to
    50Mhz. It was reported that it would have affected the original BBC
    World Service frequency in the UK had they still been transmitting.
    Whilst baby intercoms do cause interference, it is specifically
    restricted to the band that they're supposed to be on and extremely
    marginally because they're transmitting over the mains on very low
    power as it isn't essential that the signal being received is
    completely devoid of noise and errors.

    The problem is this:

    PLT adapters were certified in a lab. It was found that when they were
    put into wide use in home environments that because of the noise on the
    mains, they weren't able to communicate using the transmission power
    they had been using when being certified. In order to resolve the
    problem, they simply upped the transmitter power despite the fact that
    they knew it'd mean more interference caused and would break their CE
    certification.

    The reason they interfere up to 50Mhz is that they need 50Mhz of
    bandwidth in order to provide the network speed that they do.

    They have been banned in many US states. Its more of a problem there
    because CB and Amateur Radio is far more popular so more people are
    experiencing PLT interference..

    Here's some of a list of what on the UK radio spectrum it interferes
    with. Figure on the left is the frequency. Anything over 1000 is 1Mhz
    and above. As you can see nearer the bottom half of the table, it
    starts interfering with quite a lot of very important stuff although it
    has to be remembered that with an effective interference radius of
    about 200ft, its effect will be somewhat limited but if someone lived
    just across the road from a UK Coastguard Station, as they do in
    Bridlington, and had PLT it could cause the Coastguard some serious
    problems.

    1026 local (BBC/ILR)
    1035 local (BBC/ILR)
    1053 INR3 Talk Radio UK
    1089 INR3 Talk Radio UK
    1107 ILR + INR3 Talk Radio
    1116 local (BBC/ILR)
    1125 BBC regional (Wales)
    1143 CFA tests, 11/2000, Wooferton
    1152 ILR
    1161 local (BBC/ILR)
    1170 ILR
    1197 fill-in INR2 Virgin
    1215 INR2 Virgin (once "Virgin 1215")
    1233 fill-in INR2 Virgin
    1242 local (ILR/INR2 Virgin)
    1251 ILR (1)
    1260 local (BBC/ILR/INR2 Virgin)
    1269 RSL Brands Hatch
    1278 ILR + RSL
    1287 RSL
    1296 National BBC World Service
    1305 ILR
    1323 local (BBC/ILR) + ex RSL
    1332 local (BBC/ILR)
    1341 BBC regional (Ulster)
    1350 RSL (Hospital RSL)
    1359 local (BBC/ILR)
    1368 local (BBC/ILR)
    1377 ILR (1)
    1386 RSL
    1404 RSL
    1413 local (BBC/ILR/RSL)
    1431 ILR
    1440 ex The Great 208 - Radio Luxembourg (MW closed
    30.dec.1991) started 1933, LW, moved 1439 2.jul.1951
    1449 BBC local (some BBC R4)
    1458 local BBC/ILR)
    1476 ILR
    1485 local (BBC/BBC R4/ILR)
    1494 RSL Tooting
    1503 local (BBC/RSL)
    1521 local (BBC/ILR) 1520 was Radio Caroline (started 28 Mar
    1964)
    1530 local (BBC/ILR)
    1548 local (BBC/ILR)
    1557 local (BBC/ILR)
    1566 RSL
    1575 RSL
    1584 local (BBC/ILR)
    1602 RSL


    1.6055 MF "Fixed & Mobile" - Maritime / Land / Aero(OR)

    1.642...Cordless phones (CT0 base), to 1782 (8x 20kHz FM),
    handsets duplex at 47.456-47.543 MHz (12.5kHz spacing, 6.25
    offsets)
    Channel 7 (1762) may use 47.531 or 47.444
    To be phased out. No new equipment after apr.2005
    Handsets on 1690, 1710, 1730, 1750, 1770 may be unapproved
    USA gear (base 49.86-49.93)

    Amateur Radio 160m "Top Band" (1.81-2.0) shared (SSB used is
    mainly LSB below 10MHz)

    1.6 to 3.8MHz mostly known for maritime use (intership,
    trawler chat etc)
    (3kHz SSB channels 1635-1797 and 2053-2153?)

    2.182 Calling, Distress (Coastguards)

    Tropical bands around 2.4 MHz (120 metres), 3.3 MHz (90 metres) and
    5 MHz (60 metres)
    kHz Bands (as used by the BBC) :

    SSB (3kHz SSB channels) :
    kHz
    2182 Calling, Distress
    2046+ 2049 intership
    2053+ 2056 intership
    2241 British intership
    2246 British intership
    2301 British intership
    4000- 4060 shared with Fixed Service chs 1-21
    4146+ 4149 intership 4B & 4C (4125=4A)
    4357- 4435 shore chs 401- 427 ( -292kHz split: 4065- 4143)
    4417/ 4125 calling
    6224- 6230 intership 6A,6B,6C
    6501- 6522 shore chs 601- 608 ( -301kHz split: 6200- 6221)
    6516/ 6215 calling
    8101- 8191 shared with Fixed Service chs 1-31
    8291 ch 833 GMDSS
    8294+ 8297 intership 8A & 8B
    8364 SAR
    8707- 8716 chs 834-837
    8719- 8812 shore chs 801- 832 ( -524kHz split: 8195- 8288)
    8779/ 8255 calling
    12353-12365 intership
    13077-13197 shore chs 1201-1241 ( -847kHz split: 12230-12350)
    13137/12290 calling
    16528-16546 intership
    17242-17407 shore chs 1601-1656 ( -882kHz split: 16360-16525)
    17302/16420 calling
    18825-18843 intership
    19755-19797 shore chs 1801-1815 ( -975kHz split: 18780-18822)
    19770/18795 calling
    22159-22177 intership
    22696-22852 shore chs 2201-2253 ( -696kHz split: 22000-22156)
    22756/22060 calling
    25100-25118 intership
    26145-26172 shore chs 2501-2510 (-1075kHz split: 25070-25097)
    26172/25097 calling

    12359 Herb VAX498 (nr Toronto) 20:00 - 22:00 UTC



    o Aeronautical R or ER (En-Route on fixed airways; so mainly
    civil) (3kHz SSB channels) more
    kHz
    2851- 3019 NATS: 2872, 2899, 2971, 3016 (Ireland)
    3401- 3497 NATS: 3413 (VolMet), 3476 BT: 3482
    4651- 4696 NATS: 4675
    5481- 5676 NATS: 5505 (VolMet), 5598, 5616, 5649 BT: 5610, 5670
    (Rugby) Speedwing: 5535 (Cove)
    6526- 6682 NATS: 6622 BT: 6634 +EC!
    8816- 8960 NATS: 8831, 8864, 8879, 8891, 8906, 8957 (VolMet) BT:
    8960
    10006-10096
    11276-11396 NATS: 11279, 11336 BT: 11306
    13261-13357 NATS: 13264 (VolMet), 13291, 13306
    17901-17967 NATS: 17946
    21925-21997



    o Aeronautical OR (Off-Route; so mainly military) (3kHz SSB
    channels) GHFS
    Watch for "Airfield colour states" every hour at the same
    minutes past the hour.
    Volmet weather info broadcasts are easy to find...
    kHz
    3023 - 3152 3023 SAR (night) and up to 3230= ?
    3800 - 3950
    4700= -4995= +CCF
    5450= -5480= 5450 RAF VolMet
    5680 GMDSS SAR (day)
    5684 - 5726 5711
    6685 - 6763 6739
    8965 - 9037 9031 "On-the-hour" and H+30 "Architect"
    11175 -11271 11175 is the "triple 1" calling channel 11253 RAF
    VolMet
    13200 -13257
    15010 -15097
    17970 -18027
    21870=-21924= Fixed
    23200=-23350=



    o Sounding - investigating the ionospheric conditions by
    sweeping 2 to 30MHz every
    5 minutes (100kHz per second). A chirp hits 7MHz at about
    2:28 into each 5 minute segment


    o In the remaining parts of HF, you'd be forgiven for thinking
    anything goes :eek:)
    I presume "fixed" on its own means mobile so long as one
    station is fixed!
    kHz
    3155= -3400= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
    4000= -4063= Fixed + Sea Mobile (4000-4060 USB, ch1-21)
    4438= -4650= Fixed + all Mobile +CCF
    5005= -5450= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile +CCF
    5730= -5950= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
    6765= -7000= Fixed + Land Mobile (6.78 ISM : 6.765-6.795, half of
    13.56)
    7300= -8100= Fixed + Land Mobile
    8100= -8195= Fixed + Maritime Mobile (8101-8191 USB, ch1-31)
    9040= -9500= Fixed
    9900= -9995= Fixed
    10150=-11175= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
    11400=-11700= Fixed
    12050=-12230= Fixed
    13360=-13600= Fixed + all Mobile (13.56 ISM : 13.533-13.587)
    13800=-14000= Fixed + all Mobile + EC!
    14350=-14990= Fixed + all Mobile
    15600=-16360= Fixed
    17410=-17550= Fixed
    18030=-18068= Fixed
    18168=-18780= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
    18900=-19680= Fixed (18.9 to 19.02 broadcasting after 2007)
    19800=-19990= Fixed
    20010=-21000= Fixed + all Mobile
    21750=-21870= Fixed
    22855=-23000= Fixed
    23000=-23200= Fixed + all Mobile
    23350=-24890= Fixed + Land Mobile
    25010=-25070= Fixed + Land Mobile
    25210=-25550= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
    25550=-25600= Radio Astronomy
     
    Conor, Aug 2, 2009
    #8
  9. That Ofcom technician ("engineer" - ROTFL!) should get retrained. If your
    neighbour was using CE marked/certified/approved equipment that was causing
    interference then it is not the neighbour who was committing an offence.
    which says: "The person who places products on the market (usually the
    manufacturer or the importer) must ensure that the products comply and
    apply the ‘CE’ mark." An innocent consumer of marked equipment is
    committing no offence (where offence means a crime/breach of the law).

    You have my sympathy but if there if any offender it is not that neighbour.

    Tony
     
    Anthony R. Gold, Aug 2, 2009
    #9
  10. Nozza

    John Weston Guest

    it's very low power and on twisted pairs. But how about the reverse
    direction - Homeplugs interfering with ADSL2+ (up to 2.2Mhz) and even
    slowing down ADSL2 (<1.1Mhz) by making the higher frequency bins
    unuseable?
     
    John Weston, Aug 2, 2009
    #10
  11. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Wrong.
     
    Conor, Aug 2, 2009
    #11
  12. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Bullshit. If I use a CE certified CB radio and it interferes with the
    neighbours TV, it is ME that gets to carry the can.

    It is the responsibility of the person using the device to ensure that
    it does not interfere.
     
    Conor, Aug 2, 2009
    #12
  13. Nozza

    Clint Sharp Guest

    Much as I'm with you on the pollution of the HF bands, unfortunately
    you're wrong. Providing you haven't messed around with your transceiver
    and aren't using it in a non-approved/licensed manner then you're not
    doing anything wrong.

    As long as the homeplugs have that CE approval (and it's traceable, not
    forged) then you can wave goodbye to shortwave listening.
    No, it's the responsibility of the person using the device to ensure it
    doesn't operate outside the prescribed limits which cover spurii,
    harmonics etc. As long as your kit meets or betters the required
    specifications for its type approval then it's tough titties if someone
    suffers interference. Just because someone's cheap shit telly displays
    fuzzy lines or blasts out morse code does not mean it's the radio
    operator's fault. Whilst the nice man from OFCOM might not be
    particularly sympathetic with you if you haven't tried to help your
    neighbours, there's jack all he can do as long as your kit is working
    properly.
     
    Clint Sharp, Aug 2, 2009
    #13
  14. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    I have already.
     
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
    #14
  15. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Ofcom disagree.
    Thankfully, Ofcom don't share your view.
    Which it is.
    THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT. The kit has had to have its TX raised +
    22-26dB ABOVE what it was certified at in order to work. The stuff you
    buy in the shop is NOT the same as the unit that was certified. It is
    NOT operating within the parameters they're required to.

    If it were not a problem, why has Ofcom set up a dedicated team for PLT
    interference?
     
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
    #15
  16. No, you merely quoted from (an out of date version of) the interpretation
    of interference (and which is now found in WTA 1949 s.19(4)).

    http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?ActiveTextDocId=1152510

    but you have not cited any offence that makes the operation of CE marked
    devices that causes such interference illegal.

    There are WTA offences of deliberate interference (which is quite different
    from to knowingly interfere) plus others related to transmitters and
    broadcasting but I don't see anything that supports your claim that a
    consumer who uses CE marked devices that cause interference is committing
    any offence. Of course if the devices are improperly marked then the
    supplier and or manufacturer/importer could be committing offences.

    Tony
     
    Anthony R. Gold, Aug 3, 2009
    #16
  17. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    Yes I have.
    YOU'VE JUST SAID WHERE YOU'VE SEEN IT. The fact it is CE certified is
    completely and utterly irrelevent.
    And the end user.
     
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
    #17
  18. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    BT has a lot of them and contributes a wad of cash to the government...
    Indeed. However once been made aware they are doing by an Ofcom field
    engineer, they should stop using them immediately or be charged.
     
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
    #18
  19. If so the maybe your post is only in your mind and not on any server :)
    Where the only "it" I have seen is merely the correction of your wrong
    pointer to Ofcom's interpretation of the word "interference" but no mention
    any related offences (other than through operation of radio transmitters or
    from intentional interference).
    For he sake of form I will ask you to cite the particular offence by such
    an end user - although I assume you will merely reply in cryptic grunts
    about already having told us in some other life and on some other planet.

    Tony
     
    Anthony R. Gold, Aug 3, 2009
    #19
  20. Nozza

    Conor Guest

    I qouted the Wireless Act and you've even mentioned it in reply.
    So why did the Ofcom field engineer and the PLT advice line state that
    the person using it is committing the offence of Radio Spectrum Abuse?

    Radio Spectrum Abuse. That's the offence that OFCOM told me was being
    committed. Or are you saying you know more than Ofcom?

    How many cases of radio interference have you reported to Ofcom?
    How many times have you had an Ofcom field engineer out to investigate?

    None. So you know **** ALL and are talking out your arse.

    I'm no longer prepared to converse with a clueless **** like you and
    instead will continue to deal with Ofcom in this who, unlike you,
    actually are the horses mouth and not the monkey's arsehole.
     
    Conor, Aug 3, 2009
    #20
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