Got Burned one too many times

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by SamuelF566, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    The software is developed in another country and their programmers
    might not even understand 'good morning', and care even less.

    The users use whats given to them and expect it to work.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 6, 2005
    #41
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  2. But will it? Would you put your hand in your own pocket to invest in a
    company building software with the vague hope that someone might buy it at
    some point?

    OpenOffice is here (basically an offshoot of a commercial package) but we're
    not seeing a rush (mostly a few trials in local councils). And that's been
    what, three years?

    Linux on the desktop may well have its day (as predicted to have happened
    around 1997), but it certainly isn't inevitable.
    Nope - I was looking for a way to run software from "the default desktop
    platform" on a Linux box. Sorry - obviously didn't make that point clearly
    enough. (Strange, given the examples I mentioned...)

    Given that very few people seem to be writing any form of generally useful
    business software on the platform, that strikes me as the best hope for
    getting Linux on the desktop.

    Failing that, we'll have to wait until one of those infamous paradigm shifts
    that kill-off established platforms.
    Fair enough - I prefer the PC platform for what few games I play (better
    interfaces and more choice)

    Surprised you didn't react to the MS comment - as far as I'm aware, that's
    the main way to play decent games on a Linux platform ;o)

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Sep 6, 2005
    #42
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  3. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    If you are were a software company and you had a demand (potential sales)
    for you product on another platform would you ignore your clients? Think
    not.
    WRONG! I work for a company that makes 17Bn/year (with only 45 employees).
    We use it on every desktop. Personally, I use it on all of my machines. My
    mother uses it, my father uses it, etc, etc...

    On that note, by the way, it is better product. Try out the 1.9 Beta2
    version. I find it is easier and more pleasant to use...
    Inevitability suggests certainty. Nothing is certain. However, we have been
    very happy but at work and at home with the open source products. I would
    not go back. The Windows platform is for suckers. :eek:)
    Fair enough, honestly I have a hard time zeroing in on what your points are
    sometimes. Well, technically Wine is a package for running windows 32bit
    binaries on a Linux/BSD/UNIX box. The package is independent from the
    specific window manager. About 2 years ago, I used to run the M$ Office
    products with it but, since KDEs office and OpenOffice have matured so much
    I pretty much dumped it at work and at home. Wine works pretty well but,
    does take some configuration...
    True, more companies need to make more software. Better yet, I believe
    everything should be web based. However, I can tell that you either have
    not used Linux/BSD for sometime or are not familiar with Linux/BSD at all
    (besides loading it and playing with it for a month or so...
    Already happened with us. Again read a couple of paragraphs above. My
    company is 98% Linux (specifically debian). That is from the Server to the
    Desktop. We are also very, very successful with it. The help desk guys no
    longer have to live in the perpetual spyware, virus and "no you can not be
    a local admin group, sir" HELL!!!!!!!!!!!

    Software updates no longer makes anyone sweat; The CIO is never asking how
    we are dealing with the lastest MS Worm....

    Again, moving to Linux was a sweat deal for me, my team and my company....
    More choice, not sure if I believe that but anyway....
    Which MS comment are you referencing? That it is for suckers :eek:)

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 6, 2005
    #43
  4. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    Well you have to check and download the windows updates, Av updates,
    ad-aware updates, etc then clear all the temp files and runt the programs.
    Maybe it wasn't a whole hour but my point is it was a waste of time that I
    now have back to actually do usefull things.
    My system isn't the typical home user system that gets used for 30 minutes a
    day to check my e-mail. It gets ran 24/7 and is my PDA, document archive,
    etc, etc, etc. It goes with me anyware I go, I track everything I do from
    projects around the house to whatever I do at work. Test out various
    things under various OS'es under vmware, etc so I'm way up in the power
    user territory where Windows various problems show up. How about the
    phantom USB devices? Bad memory management, network drive file handle
    overflows. These are all documented XP problems (thought w2k was better)
    that I have to put up with at work on the company system I was given. How
    about the w2k3 san problem? The MS05-018 problem with w2k?
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 7, 2005
    #44
  5. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    Active X disabled it will still install. Previous job we had several people
    get it. I disabled active X across a bunch of machines and they still got
    it. I combed through their history and started started following links on
    a clean system and it got infected with no propmts at all asking me to
    install it. DAGS you will see many others saying the same thing. FUD I
    speak not.
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 7, 2005
    #45
  6. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    See my other post for more detail but basically I took a clean system,
    turned off active X, followed the history of users workstations that got
    infected that system got infected with LOB without a prompt of any kind. I
    blocked that site on the firewall then.
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 7, 2005
    #46
  7. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    Check this out and do some research...we can talk later

    http://dot.kde.org/1125833662/

    http://www.kde-apps.org/

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 7, 2005
    #47
  8. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    FWIW the LOP removal tool from their website worked very well
    only 49k and wanted authentication by typing in a code from a
    graphic - this was not online with the nag screens about keeping
    this wonderful free software.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 7, 2005
    #48
  9. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    At the time I (well my users) were infected they didn't have the removal
    tool available.
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 8, 2005
    #49
  10. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    I think they have been forced to provide a clean uninstall option, and
    I was having some trouble getting rid of it until looking for a tool
    on their site, so its a tip worth passing on. Did run adaware after
    in case the tool had not done the business properly, but it seems
    to have been good.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 8, 2005
    #50
  11. Although everyone seems to be.. that's basically my point.

    I've never said that was a *good* thing, just that it's happening at the
    moment.
    I'd hardly call fifty users a rush to adopt it ;o)

    And who the hell do you work for?!? That's a similar turnover to the whole
    of the Indian IT industry!

    And to think, I thought that we were doing pretty well with $600k per
    capita...

    OK. Third time's the charm.

    WINE is potentially very useful because

    a) there is very little business software available on Linux (based on the
    fact that most companies do more than simply type letters)
    b) there is a lot of Windows-based business software
    c) WINE allows you to run this software on a Linux platform
    d) that means that you now have a much wider choice of business software on
    the Linux platform.

    Clear enough?
    I was referring to the interfaces (something other than a gamepad), but I
    suppose that it works equally well if you count the number of games
    released.

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Sep 8, 2005
    #51
  12. Accounts packages? Inventory? HR? There's one single package that claims to
    do ERP (it's all in Italian, so it's hard to tell. Looks more like a forms
    designer)

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Sep 8, 2005
    #52
  13. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    This will change with time. Linux has had great growth in the last year and
    if the numbers continue, Microsoft will not be able to persuade companies
    to write OS specific software anymore. This was the reason why M$ tried
    everything in their power to sink Java...
    Yes and no. I think that most software companies would like to widen their
    software to more platforms. Again, this was what java was all about.
    However, M$ did successfully sabotage it on Windows just for that reason.
    They, MS, does not want comapies to write software that can be used on many
    platforms. This is how they illegally hook you into MS solutions.
    How about the State of Massachusetts? Or the French and Italian Schools
    systems? How about the Brazilian Government? How about the German
    Government?
    I would love to tell you who I work for, but I believe in keeping my work
    separate from my personal life. I hope you understand and respect that.
    Those are not bad numbers.
    Now you clearly defined your statements. I agree with your statements except
    for #a. When you buy say a bluecoat security appliance what are you buying?
    Hummm LINUX. Although, I do not like so-called appliances many (including
    some cell phone PDAs are in fact Linux).

    Now I will agree with you on the point that more software companies need to
    make more software on Linux/BSD/UNIX. However, I am confident that this
    problem is starting to shrink.
    Again, I do not use PCs for gaming but, I have not been let down by the
    number of games for my Playstation.

    On a side note, I would love to show you my gaming set up. You never even
    think of buying a PC game again :)
    Im
     
    Imhotep, Sep 8, 2005
    #53
  14. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    Nonsense, what they want is to make as much money as possible for as
    little effort.
    Java sucks. Its tedious, over complicated and hasn't really made it.

    The applications I've had to install that use it, like Reuters Kinecta
    are painful unfriendly and unstable.
    nothing illegal about providing features on their OS that developers
    find attractive.

    Just that for some MS can do no right.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 8, 2005
    #54
  15. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    Oh my God Jim that was the most stupid statement you have made yet. Dah!!!

    The point was that I believe most companies would like to make their
    software once and have it run anywhere. Why? They could QA it once and have
    it run the same everywhere. For one cost they could support all. Hence the
    reason for Java being invented.
    How is it tedious and over complicated? Are you taking about writting
    programs in Java or installing Java?
    It is funny on UNIX/Linux/BSD Java is pretty damn stable (and a crap load
    faster than Windows). Kinda funny that is runs well in Linux, BSDs and Macs
    but, only Windows has a problem with it....hummmmm...

    It is widely known the MS saw a threat in Java. After all, they lose
    leverage if a piece of software could run anywhere. Coincidence that MS had
    problems with Java? think not.
    Did you even read the paragraph??? The point was that MS intentional
    sabotaged Java because it threaten their marketing strategy...
    When they do, I will give them credit. On a side note, I have a Playstation
    and an XBox. The XBox is pretty ok....
     
    Imhotep, Sep 9, 2005
    #55
  16. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    Try www.sourceforge.net
     
    Imhotep, Sep 9, 2005
    #56
  17. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    If you think thats stupid, theres no hope for you.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 9, 2005
    #57
  18. But. People have been saying that for a large number of years. Still hasn't
    happened, that I'm aware of.

    And that's with a softwarebase of thirty five years!

    On the Java front (something I know a fair bit about), the situation wasn't
    sabotage, but something quite different.

    MS added featurs that Sun didn't have, or necessarily want. They stamped
    their little feet, and said that it shalt be by the Sun spec, or it shant be
    there at all. MS lost the case, and Sun laughed and laughed. Right up to the
    point where MS told them to bugger off.

    It was Sun that came back and asked MS to support Java for another few
    years. And it'll be Sun's abortion of a JRE that we'll be stuck with. Or
    IBM's.
    A firewall isn't exactly what I'd call a mainstream business application.
    Neither's a far-eastern phone with a ripped-off Linux stack, because they
    don't want to go to the cost of buying something from ARM.

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Sep 9, 2005
    #58
  19. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    Correction that was the most stupid statement you made in quite a while.
    Dah!
     
    Imhotep, Sep 10, 2005
    #59
  20. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    No they have not. People have only been saying that Linux will be on the
    desktop for about three years (not talking about those lame "computer"
    magizines that are nothing more and a couple of "articles" and 9000 adds.
    Even Gartner is saying that within 5 years Linux will be common place on
    the desktop. Look at Germany, France, China and most of S. America. All of
    these countries are behind Linux. In fact Linux growth is only slow in the
    US.
    You are confussing two different things. UNIX has been around for some 30+
    years. UNIX != Open Source. These are two different things. Open Source has
    just recently become a big item.
    Hummm sounds like the typical "make it incompatible" ploy that MS always
    uses (an quite well I must admit). They fought Netscape in the day by
    "adding" non standard features also...

    Let me ask you this very simple question. Why is it that, on this machine
    that I am writing to you, I have 6 versions of java installed (and numerous
    apps) and not a single problem? (OS == FreeBSD 5.4). In fact it is kinda
    strange that MS is the only OS I have ever had problems with (and a lot).

    Sorry but you have not convinced me. I know MS, the last thing they want is
    software that IS NOT dependant on Windows. That IS a fact. This is how they
    make suckers of sooo many.
    I guess their millions per year revenue is from donations maybe? :-O
    I do quite well (and my company also) with it. Do some research. Check out
    sourceforce, freshmeat, etc, etc....

    You can ignore it if you wish; you can deny it if you want, but you better
    get used to Linux, for it is not going away...no matter how much MS wants
    it to be.
    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 10, 2005
    #60
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