Got Burned one too many times

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by SamuelF566, Sep 4, 2005.

  1. Just for info.. basically someone buys a type-site, copies the code, causes
    a buffer overrun, gets caught because he's not good enough to cover his
    tracks, and the world moves on.

    My mind remains boggled as to why things still don't appear to be
    dynamically allocated and bounds-checked. Even the great god Firefox was
    recently kicked in the nuts by just such an exploit.

    It's not exactly a new problem:

    "Well, my terminal's locked up, and I ain't got any Mail,
    And I can't recall the last time that my program didn't fail;
    I've got stacks in my structs, I've got arrays in my queues,
    I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues.

    "If you think that it's nice that you get what you C,
    Then go : illogical statement with your whole family,
    'Cause the Supreme Court ain't the only place with : Bus error views.
    I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues.

    "On a PDP-11, life should be a breeze,
    But with VAXen in the house even magnetic tapes would freeze.
    Now you might think that unlike VAXen I'd know who I abuse,
    I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues."

    -- Extracted from SunOS cookie, back when SunOS was SunOS, and Solaris
    was but a twinkling in the biro of the marketing department

    <ducks back behind parapet>

    --

    Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Sep 5, 2005
    #21
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  2. SamuelF566

    David Norris Guest

    Admittedly I'm not a big gamer. But I do feel that such software could be
    made available for other operating systems. Mind you, Micro$oft would
    probably file lawsuits...
     
    David Norris, Sep 5, 2005
    #22
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  3. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    I couldn't tell you, I made several attempts to remove it and finally just
    reformatted since after an hour of messing with it I could have already had
    it reinstalled. Could be that the site I hit has been shutdown now, but my
    point is there are still too many holes in MS OS even if you are being
    extra careful.
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 5, 2005
    #23
  4. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    That was my point, that it won't make you secure, your only band-aiding a
    few of the large holes but there are plenty of others in windows, thats why
    I made the switch
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 5, 2005
    #24
  5. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    I've played with and supported a few and found their desktop manager no
    better than KDE. Plus the size of the icons such wastes too much screen
    space for us who want smaller laptops that are actually capable of being
    carried around. They are just too dumed down for me.
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 5, 2005
    #25
  6. SamuelF566

    Eugene Nine Guest

    Because you can't run Windows securly
    Same here and I have gotten infected with spyware myself without allowing
    any of it to be installed.
    LOP is one of the known toolbars that doesn't ask to be installed so no
    amount of user education canhelp there.
     
    Eugene Nine, Sep 5, 2005
    #26
  7. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    Mine seems OK, and I've never got Lop

    Seen lots of messages inviting me and telling me to
    download programs, its a pity that there is not an option
    in IE or indeed firefox which prevents executables
    being downloaded. That would be progress.

    FWIW the lop removal tool from their website seems
    to have removed it.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 5, 2005
    #27
  8. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    The issue is really that the Mac is such a minority market and
    Linux users so varied that software developers would not get a
    return on their investment. In the past when I did sell games
    for small machines we used to carry the same games for around
    four different platforms. and it was tedious. Added to that they
    have got far more complex than the simple Z80/6502 offerings
    of that era.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 5, 2005
    #28
  9. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    First the issue of game software is pretty insignificant. I do not anyone
    who relies on M$ Windows for gaming software. All of the people I know use
    a gaming console like the PlayStation, etc, etc...

    Second, when shoosing a OS I believe not being ripped off because you have
    spyware, keyloggers, etc is more important anyway.

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 5, 2005
    #29
  10. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    This is the point. I did run M$ Windows safely for sometime. The point for
    me was I was tried of being a slave to my computer. I was tied of updating
    the numerous anti-spayware, anti-virus, anti-this and anti-that. I was
    spending more time on this than simply enjoying the Internet. This is the
    point.

    Get Mac is not a lame point. The new Mac has a FreeBSD core. In as such is
    much more secure than a M$ Windows box. Stop being a M$ zombie and look to
    another solution when your current solution is just not cutting it...
    That is an overly used excuse. The OS should not be so easily compromised.
    Honestly, the blame should be equally shared between the user and the
    software vendor.

    Again, people like you have become a zombie and will look to any excuse to
    not blame the source: Microsoft.
    Try educting him. Like I am with you.

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 5, 2005
    #30
  11. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    In Firefox uncheck this:
    Tools->Preferences->Web Features->Allow Web Sites to install software
    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 5, 2005
    #31
  12. SamuelF566

    Management Guest

    FUD!

    As I understand it, LOP variants are installed using ActiveX &
    popups. Sounds like a job for Firefox!


    Charlie.
     
    Management, Sep 5, 2005
    #32
  13. SamuelF566

    Management Guest

    That's really sad Eugine - an hour a day! What were you doing,
    polishing all the ports? Seriously I would love to know what
    mainenance took you an hour a day. Our three machines (XP Pro, XP
    Home & Win 98) are all very stable & clean - I've never had a virus,
    worm or nasty adware in the 8 years that I've been on line. I would
    guess that I spend an hour a week keeping our 3 networked machines
    maintained.

    <SNIP>

    Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and have some experience setting
    and using Susie but the needs of the average family are, for the
    time being, best served by using Windows. I'm not an average user
    which is why I have never had a nasty on any of my machines.

    What gets my goat is the Microsoft business model, the way the
    company stifles competition and stunts innovation.

    Charlie.
     
    Management, Sep 5, 2005
    #33
  14. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    Firefox is OK, indeed I use it, however I did find a client
    who was screwed up because someone installed it and
    set it as the default browser and they have applications that
    only work with IE, so its not for everyone.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 5, 2005
    #34
  15. SamuelF566

    Jim Watt Guest

    Get out more. There is a whole industry that does it that way
    You don't get to 'choose' an OS - buy a computer from
    IBM or Dell and guess what it comes with ... XP preloaded.

    Indeed the packages are now so cheap I can't build a PC
    and include an OS at the price they cost.
     
    Jim Watt, Sep 5, 2005
    #35
  16. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    Jim clean your ass your breath smells....
     
    Imhotep, Sep 5, 2005
    #36
  17. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    I use FreeBSD at home (no Windows what-so-ever). My whole family uses it
    quite well and with little help from me. It all comes down to no matter
    what OS you use, you will have to learn to use it. In this sense M$ and
    Linux/FreeBSD/UNIX is same.
    Absolutely. The MS business model is "We can;t compete so let's cheat". It
    is a shame at the innovation that company has killed....
    Imhoep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 5, 2005
    #37
  18. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    This is a design flaw in the application. You should tell your customers to
    use applications that work with any browser. Indeed, we have a company
    policy to NOT use such poorly written software.


    Im
     
    Imhotep, Sep 5, 2005
    #38
  19. Erm.. take a look around. I'm not a big gamer either, but for the 99.997% of
    peeps who really don't give a shit about PC security, that just ain't the
    case.

    OK, so I'm probably exaggerating - call it 94% of all "PC" users, and we'll
    call it "evens" ;o) There are undoubtedly Mac gamers...

    Dare I say it, but - I would guess that a lot of your friends might be a
    little more techie than the average.

    They probably have a dedicated games console, for the simple fact that
    (besides one obvious, proprietary choice) there're just ain't no commercial
    games for Linux.

    Please don't drag me into the details - most of my stuff had to be hacked to
    work under anything other than plain DOS. I like my games (strokes treasured
    CD, Dr. Evil stylee ;o)

    If I needed a particular platform then I'd run it (still have an old
    DOS-based CD that I really must install on a VM; unfortunately, the upgrade
    from VMware 3 to 4 is a bit, well, pants). At some point that 98SE CD /will/
    see daylight once more :eek:) The average user has one platform (recount: just
    one) that does everything. Ask 'em to give up "Ferret Bugger 4 - Lots of
    Action in Short Trousers", and they'll just laugh. They have "email" and
    "the Internet" and "the office", all happily sitting on their PC.

    Exactly what would you say to convince them that a major change would be
    better? Bearing in mind that they'd no longer be able top get "tips" from
    their mates down the pub, their company, or their favourite newspaper.

    I am not defending this; it's simply that the default desktop platform is
    Windows-based. The closest that *nix world has is Wine. And that wouldn't
    even run the installer for the (truly DOS-based) X-Wing. Although it /will/
    run my own little MiniFrame <smug glow ;o) >

    If we're going to argue games, then let's start with the absolute basics.
    Both Star Trek & Zork were available around thirty years ago. Totally
    text-based (I first tried both on the Commodore PET), they must surely be
    available on *nix, free of charge.

    Over to you for links..

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Sep 6, 2005
    #39
  20. SamuelF566

    Imhotep Guest

    I am not trying to convince anyone. I am simply reminding you that there are
    alternatives. The rest is up to you. As a side note, I am sometimes amazed
    at how complacent people have become regarding the Microsoft Marketing
    machine.

    The other day, a family relative had a dialer trojan on his pc. Now he
    called up the authorities giving the evidence, etc, etc. The lady on the
    phone was very sympathetic and started recommending the standard
    anti-spyware, anti-virus, anti-this and anti-that. Now, it was nice that
    she tried to help about the numerous software need to secure his XP box
    but, come on, what about stopping the people that get away with writting
    these things?

    So, to answer your question. You are using the typical argument of
    commercial software availability. I am saying that as linux/FreeBSD demand
    grows (and it is) this argument will be moot....
    Wine is for Windows application emulation. Wine is not a desktop
    platform...If you are looking for a Linux/BSD/UNIX window manager (ie
    desktop platform) check out KDE (http://www.kde.org)
    Again, honestly, I find the experience of gaming on a console much better
    (connected to my Harman Kardon system with real surround sound and 65 inch
    TV and sitting in my lazy chair). Sorry, but even the same game on linux
    would lose out to that....again games on M$ just is not a big deal for me.
    Sorry.
    What do you want links to?
    Summary:
    Chose the platform that is best for you but, always realize no matter what
    M$ is trying to sell/tell you, you have choices. Don't become a MS
    zombie...

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Sep 6, 2005
    #40
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