Good for Pentax! Eliminate the horrible little P&Ss

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. RichA

    Mr. Strat Guest

    Real men use OS X.
    Unless they do something to dramatically improve it, I wouldn't call
    Vista an upgrade. It's Me all over again.
     
    Mr. Strat, Mar 2, 2008
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  2. Mr. Strat wrote:
    []
    Well, Mr. Strat, it has run all the software I've thrown at it over
    several months, and the performance in general has been very pleasing.
    Yes, you will get UAC messages when you try and do some admin type task,
    but you don't get these during the normal operation of Vista. Of course,
    it takes a little getting used to compared with XP, but I think the effort
    is well worthwhile. Others I have spoken with who are also using Vista
    are also pleased with it.

    Last year I would have recommended sticking with XP, but today I see no
    reason to do so.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 2, 2008
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  3. RichA

    Mr. Strat Guest

    So, I guess you like its ugliness and stiff hardware requirements? And
    the annoying confirmation messages hardly constitute a decent security
    model.

    This summer, I will be responsible for deploying 100 or so new
    computers with Vista and Office 2007. I'm not really looking forward to
    that task or the resulting support calls.
    I see no reason to use Windows...period.
     
    Mr. Strat, Mar 2, 2008
  4. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    If I purchase a new computer, I'll go Dell because Dell still offers
    XP and everyone else wants to stick only Vista on one.

    I'm not a Microsoft basher, I don't give a damn if Vista's a bloated
    system, and I do feel that whatever extant problems there are with
    Vista that Microsoft will resolve them.

    What does affect me is that I work extensively with Adobe Photoshop 7,
    with Adobe Elements 5.0 (for quick and dirty photo work), with
    CorelDraw 9, and a few other non-Microsoft products. I read the
    Photoshop newsgroups and see the problems that other people have in
    using older versions of software on new computers with Vista.

    I don't want to upgrade my software. I've played around with the
    newer Photoshop versions on other people's computers and see no
    advantage in the CS X versions for what I do. I don't want to upgrade
    my CorelDraw for the same reason.

    You can't just look at the OS when it comes to this type of decision.
    Conceivably, it could double my cost, when I add in software updates,
    to buy a system with Vista on it.
     
    tony cooper, Mar 3, 2008
  5. I don't find Vista ugly, and almost any new PC today has the hardware to
    run Vista with dual-core and 2GB memory being the current standard. As
    ever with an operating system, security is how /you/ choose to configure
    it.

    I haven't played with Office 2007, but with Vista I would suggest you do a
    pilot implementation and produce a set of FAQs for the new users. Perhaps
    get a classroom where you can demonstrate what's new. If your users are
    anything like the ones I used to have, as long as they can get their
    e-mail, start Excel and Word, print and save their documents, they will be
    happy.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 3, 2008
  6. tony cooper wrote:
    []
    I'm sorry to hear about the Adobe and Corel software problems. You have
    to ask why people write software which doesn't run on Windows Vista. Is
    it a deliberate policy to get you to upgrade? Most software I've tested
    which works on XP works just fine on Vista. Programs which write to
    C:\Program Files\ are handled a little differently.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 3, 2008
  7. RichA

    Mr. Strat Guest

    We're working on it.

    Office 2007 is an excellent example of Microsoft's lack of clue when it
    comes to designing user interfaces. It's downright putrid. I'm glad my
    personal computer are Macintoshes.
     
    Mr. Strat, Mar 3, 2008
  8. Mr. Strat wrote:
    []
    So if you don't like Microsoft Office 2007, aren't there free alternatives
    you can use instead? Perhaps they even have the older user interface?

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 3, 2008
  9. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    I think the whole industry is geared to supplying that which must be
    upgraded later. Is not Vista just an upgrade?

    In defense of the industry, programs are designed to work with what is
    currently used in the way of an OS. You can't blame Adobe for
    designing a program that worked on the OS that was current at the time
    the program was launched, but doesn't work if major changes are made
    in the OS.

    You might think that Adobe should make a patch available that makes
    their old software compatible with a new OS, but then you have to
    wonder why the new OS doesn't have a patch to make old software
    compatible.
     
    tony cooper, Mar 3, 2008
  10. tony cooper wrote:
    []
    I'm saying that /most/ programs which work on XP will work on Vista. Why
    does Adobe or Corel write their software so that it doesn't, when many
    other companies can?

    As far as I know, nothing has been taken away from Vista to make it
    incompatible....and as Microsoft doesn't have a competing product to
    PhotoShop, it would be in their interest to make Vista deliberately
    incompatible.

    I think this problem should be laid at Adobe's door, not Microsoft's.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 3, 2008
  11. RichA

    Guest Guest

    Very true. Kodak was an industry giant for film. However, like other
    companies before they just couldn't make the leap to the new technology.
    Kodak made crap consumer digital cameras, crap consumer printers, and even
    their pro dSLR's were lame ducks. WordPerfect Corporation couldn't make the
    jump from DOS to Windows and so that killed them for WordPerfect. Corel
    Corporation tried the leap to Linux and that almost killed them. Netscape
    couldn't see the forest for the trees and had to keep charging for their
    browser while others gave theirs away by the time you woke up they were
    dead. I don't believe for one second that Microsoft helped maters but I
    don't think Microsoft alone killed Netscape, Netscape killed Netscape. There
    are many more companies over the decades that have had hard times making the
    change. Car companies are having a tough time making the leap from gas to
    other forms of fuel. Like idiots they think that Ethanol is the answer and
    while it is better for the environment at least to some small extent, it is
    causing a rise in food prices and costs as much more than gas. If they want
    non-gas vehicles to do well then they need and environmentally friendly fuel
    that is around $1.50 a gallon or less. Then people would junk their current
    cars and make the switch. The examples go on and on.

    In many ways I think companies evolve like people and animals do. Those that
    can't evolve to the new world become extinct like the dinosaurs.
     
    Guest, Mar 3, 2008
  12. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    What are "most" programs? Name some. Name some that are not
    Microsoft products because, naturally, Microsoft knows what will and
    will not work with a new OS.
    Who are these other companies? Adobe and Corel are major players. In
    just the readership of this one newsgroup, I would imagine that an
    Adobe product is used by more people than any other software provider
    other than Microsoft.
    Why does the problem need to be laid at any one company's door? It's
    a problem of the industry, not a problem of this company or that
    company.
     
    tony cooper, Mar 3, 2008
  13. tony cooper wrote:
    []
    Here are some non-Microsoft programs I have working correctly:
    PlanePlotter, ShipPlotter, BaseStation (special hardware), SBS populate,
    FlightDisplay, AutoHotKey, AMD Catalyst, ProcessExplorer, Dexatek DVB TV
    reception (special hardware), T-systems TelliCast, IrfanView, MRTG, NTP,
    SQLlite browser, Garmin (hardware), some software I have written,
    mstDefrag, Perl, SNMP informant, WinTV (USB).

    So not just programs which use the operating system, but programs which
    interface with hardware as well.
    If all these companies can have software which works with Vista, but Corel
    and Abode don't, I would start by asking the company whose programs don't
    work.

    Of course, I would like to know more about just why certain software
    doesn't work to have a better understanding of the problems - at least I
    would if I had purchased that software myself.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 3, 2008
  14. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    Whoa, there. Corel and Adobe have programs that work with Vista.
    What I said was that *older* versions of Photoshop won't make the
    change. If you pay $600 or $800 for a program, you don't want to have
    to upgrade. I'm not talking about programs like Irfanview that are
    free downloads or ShipPlotter which is a US$50 program. My Adobe
    Photoshop is five years old, but it does everything I want it to do.
    I can upgrade to a CS version that will work on Vista, but I don't
    want to.
     
    tony cooper, Mar 3, 2008
  15. RichA

    Mr. Strat Guest

    Personally, I use Office 2008...but on my employers' PCs, it's Office
    2007.
     
    Mr. Strat, Mar 4, 2008
  16. RichA

    John Turco Guest

    Hello, David:

    So, the British GEC wasn't a subsidiary of the US-based General Electric
    Company, eh? (The latter >is< "even bigger than Kodak," most definitely.)
    DEC >was< "number two," once...which made IBM >the< kingpin of the computer
    business, of course.

    You have noticed that Intel hasn't muscled "Big Blue" out of existence
    (unlike the fate which befell DEC), have you not? ;-)
    Shed no tears, for Kodak! It's going nowhere; furthermore, where would NASA's
    photographic capabilities be, without the assistance of the titan of Rochester,
    NY? <g>


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
     
    John Turco, Mar 4, 2008
  17. RichA

    John Turco Guest

    Hello, David:

    Food for thought, at least. Anyhow, which OS (XP or Vista) would be more
    comfortable with 4GB (or above) of RAM, do you think?
    All right, I concur.
    None of my eyeglasses are of the "reading" type, as I'm very nearsighted.
    Still, I'm fine, and enjoy the widescreen experience, also.


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
     
    John Turco, Mar 4, 2008
  18. RichA

    John Turco Guest

    Hello, Russell:

    If you say so, Mac. :)
    Uh, that's why I'd put "upgrade" in quotation marks, before. <g>


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
     
    John Turco, Mar 4, 2008
  19. tony cooper wrote:
    []
    Tony,

    I have some sympathy with you, although I would still ask what in the way
    these earlier programs were coded prevents them running on Vista. Corel
    did issue an update for one of their programs (Paint Shop Pro
    V<something>) which made it Vista compatible.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 4, 2008
  20. John Turco wrote:
    []
    John, I don't see IBM/DEC and Intel as competing in the same space. Maybe
    someone will take bets on how long older photographic companies will
    survive. Nikon and Canon should be OK, and Panasonic are diverse enough.
    Kodak needs to find a high-value item to market, I suspect.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 4, 2008
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