Gigabit symmetric broadband...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bling-Bling, Apr 24, 2005.

  1. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    There is fibre optic cabling to within 8 feet of my home.

    I know this - I saw it being installed.


    Bling Bling
     
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #21
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  2. OC is an old technology. It's been around for quite a few years. The
    cost issue is ATM hardware in general, it's just that as you go further
    up the OC-grade links the prices of the termination hardware go up too.
    There's only so much call for multi-gigabit carrier-grade links, so the
    hardware will always be produced in relatively low numbers - a few
    tens-of-thousands a year, decreasing in production quantity as link size
    increases.
    NZ will never qualify as large scale. Ever. We're not even a
    moderately-large city in most other countries. So even if prices come
    down generally, we won't be able to claim the economies that would be
    available to even someone like Telstra Australia, let alone Verizon,
    AT&T, or the baby Bells.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
     
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #22
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  3. Bling-Bling

    Enkidu Guest

    I say that that is unlikely. Most gigabit switches (even
    some quite expensive ones) would flood with only a few
    streams of data going through them.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2005
    #23
  4. There IS a fair amount of high-level gear out there (via TradeMe etc)
    that makes me wonder if Gigabit networking is not out of reach of a
    concerted small community effort (leave metro to Telcos and other
    consortia).
     
    Stewart Fleming, Apr 25, 2005
    #24
  5. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    The (Saturn) telephone and cable infrastructure within the building.


    Bling Bling
     
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #25
  6. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    Most likely because of either their manufacturers doing lots of price
    gouging; or because they are not yet selling large enough quantities of
    them to make the economies-of-scale kick in.

    The answer to that is simply to kick start the market by reducing the
    price of those devices to make it desireable for ISPs to invest in that
    infrastructure on a large scale.


    Bling Bling
     
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #26
  7. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    Um...

    Both ends matter.

    The (de)multiplexing happens at both ends.


    Bling Bling
     
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #27
  8. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    I don't care.

    If that's what it takes... then so beit

    Cat 6 cabling is becoming cheaper all the time.


    Bling Bling
     
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #28
  9. Bling-Bling

    David Preece Guest

    Distance is a problem on copper. However there are legends of apartment
    blocks in Korea where someone runs gig fibre up to the end flat of a
    floor then get a 24 port to fibre switch and do the whole lot. Ah! the
    fun of population density :)

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Apr 25, 2005
    #29
  10. Bling-Bling

    Bling-Bling Guest

    Of course if fibre really is now cheaper than copper, then wouldn't it
    make sense to have fibre going everywhere - including to individual
    houses, and even directly into the router - no conversion to copper
    required.


    Bling Bling
     
    Bling-Bling, Apr 25, 2005
    #30
  11. You'll pay for it? Even if you have to pay a grand (or two, or three) a
    month? Let Telecon or Saturn know, I'm sure they'd love to have a
    customer who will pay whatever they feel like charging.
    Who said anything about cat 6?
    You don't seem to get that this isn't about the actual fibre, it's about
    the honking great boxes that go on the end to deliver the service you're
    seeking.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
     
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #31
  12. I never said ANYTHING about our population not being able to support
    FTTH.
    I said we'd have difficulty finding the population base to make
    symmetric gig feasible, and I've explained why that is.
    Of course it's possible. The issue is the cost of doing so. It's not
    usually ducted to the home, meaning that the old cable has to be lifted,
    a duct run, and then fibre blown through that duct. Where a house is
    connected with a wire strung between the roof and a power pole, that
    then needs a new trench because it's not well advised to leave fibre
    exposed to the elements.
    Most of it dates back to the old Post Office. It's well due for
    replacement, but Telecon have zero incentive to do so.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
     
    Matthew Poole, Apr 25, 2005
    #32
  13. Bling-Bling

    Nova Guest

    I think he had a point though maybe not to the point of being 3rd world
    but definitely slipping off the ball, I mean when it came time to lay
    copper lines to every house, if people had said oh we don't have the
    population to support copper to each house, we wouldn't even have phone
    lines. The very fact that there is copper to each house would lead us
    to believe its possible to lay fiber to each house also yes?

    How old is the copper network anyway?
     
    Nova, Apr 25, 2005
    #33
  14. Bling-Bling

    Enkidu Guest

    Copper was *cheap*. You could sling it from pole to pole.
    These days it pretty much needs to go undergound and that
    makes it expensive.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2005
    #34
  15. heh, Im doing that with my connection and the street I live on, with
    ISP's consent and appropriate connection type.
     
    Synaptic testing, Apr 26, 2005
    #35
  16. Bling-Bling

    Nova Guest

    ok but huge amounts of suberbs in auckland have underground electricity,
    underground telephone wires, so it's been done and i am sure can be done
    again, and i doubt it would break telecoms bank if they did it.

    and didn't someone say that fiber is now cheaper than copper?

    It just seems that unless the government decides broadband is important
    nz will never go forward because why would they want to? they have no
    real competition..

    I mean does our government even have a plan for fiber for the future?
    have they set out some long term plan in which they say nz will have
    fiber by 2007 or something like that, and all the telco's will
    contribute x amount of funds each year to help pay for it..

    I mean going on how well the goverment was at planning for auckland
    roading.. i doubt they have heh. seems to be a thing in nz.. no one
    spends money until its at a drastic time..
     
    Nova, Apr 26, 2005
    #36
  17. Bling-Bling

    Enkidu Guest

    Yes, and that makes putting anything underground *more*
    expensive, because you have to be careful not to disrupt the
    cables that are there already.
    If TelstraClear were to really throw their weight about they
    could have Telecom NZ for breakfast. They crushed AAPT
    (Telecom's beachhead in AU), and AAPT is only just recovering.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 26, 2005
    #37
  18. Bling-Bling

    Steve Guest

    Can't use the same conduit for high and low voltage...
    BT *made* money when they replaced their copper trunk lines with fibre -
    the copper was worth that much.> >
    Isn't xtra part M$ owned? If so, they may have something to say...
    Steve
     
    Steve, Apr 26, 2005
    #38
  19. Bling-Bling

    Enkidu Guest

    Actually you can but there are regulations, unless things
    have changed a lot. Telecom (in the UK) used to lay 9 way
    ducts, sort of like a 3 x 3 array of single ducts welded
    together. Sometimes, rarely, one of the single ducts was
    used by normal mains level cables.

    You could also lay electricity, gas and telephone in the
    same trench but there regulations, like automatic cutoffs on
    the gas and a layer of tile between electricity and
    telephone, that sort of thing.
    No, they just didn't lose so much per metre.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 26, 2005
    #39
  20. Bling-Bling

    Steve Guest

    [snip]
    That statement was true in the late '80's

    Steve
     
    Steve, Apr 26, 2005
    #40
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