Full steam ahead for Linux in Munich

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by MaHogany, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. MaHogany

    MaHogany Guest


    "I am not a computer geek, but I must admit that it was easy to switch to
    the new software,"

    "German daily Frankfurter Rundschau reports that a close colleague of the
    Lord Mayor claimed that she has "not heard him complaining about his
    computer" since the beginning of the pilot phase, which has been completed
    in the meantime."

    Ma Hogany
    MaHogany, Oct 29, 2006
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  2. MaHogany

    steve Guest

    Reality strikes another blow against preconceptions and FUD.
    steve, Oct 29, 2006
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  3. MaHogany

    Fred Dagg Guest

    My god, a "close colleague" of someone says they "hadn't heard him

    Is that the best you can do?

    Man, you could make a great bumper sticker with that...
    Fred Dagg, Oct 29, 2006
  4. MaHogany

    Phil Guest

    MaHogany wrote, On 29/10/06 8.37 p: "Wilhelm Hoegner, the city's IT director, now expects to stay within the
    migration budget of 35 million euros. The largest share of that budget
    -- 38 percent -- is set aside for training courses"

    That's quite a bit.

    Phil, Oct 29, 2006
  5. MaHogany

    steve Guest

    Compared to what?

    there are 10,000 desktops in that roll-out.
    steve, Oct 29, 2006
  6. MaHogany

    Fred Dagg Guest

    3,500 Euros per desktop?!? That's over $NZ6,500 PER desktop!! Just for

    And here, folks, we have the answer to why companies are happy to pay
    a couple of hundred bucks for Windows.

    It's called "Total Cost of Ownership" (TCO), and is exactly why it's a
    hell of a lot more expensive to use "free" software than Windows.
    Fred Dagg, Oct 29, 2006
  7. Classic.

    Perhaps you should go on a course.

    35,000,000 / 10,000 = 3,500 * 0.38 = 1,300 * 1.923 = $NZ2,500

    Which is about the price of a basic Windows and Office course combo, let alone
    anything specific to systems operated by the client.

    As with any other rollout the infrastructure costs remain the same: machines,
    networking, training, customisation.

    Now the difference: lets add say $NZ500 per seat for Windows and Office and an
    absolute minimum of another $NZ500 a seat for application specific software. In
    most cases the second will remain the same irrespective of the OS.

    TCO however is not limited to capital expenditure, ongoing costs are also very
    significant. If your management is competent you will have a technical team who
    can resolve problems. With proprietary software there will be additional costs
    to get the information required for them to do their job. Large additional
    costs. Not only that but your licenses will need constant renewal and upgrading.

    Then there's the issue of cleaning the viruses, spyware, backdoors and the rest
    from your Windows boxes over and over again which is what takes over half the
    man hours in Windows support.

    Who was it that told you it was cheaper to run Windows ? Oh yeah, Microsoft.
    Mark Robinson, Oct 29, 2006
  8. MaHogany

    MaHogany Guest

    Actually, there are 14,000. desktops in that single rollout.

    Ma Hogany
    MaHogany, Oct 29, 2006
  9. MaHogany

    MaHogany Guest

    No - that's 35m euros - the entire budget for a 5 year project, of which
    38% was allocated to training programmes, which they are now thinking can
    be nothing anywhere near as intense as they were initially thinking.

    That budget includes wages for staff, and all other costs associated for
    the programme.

    Ma Hogany
    MaHogany, Oct 29, 2006
  10. MaHogany

    thingy Guest

    What did you expect from the replacement woger?
    $NZ6500 per desktop for 3 years.....$NZ2150 per year....(based on 10,000
    desktops, Ive seen 14,000 mentioned) I seem to recall large outsourcers
    charging similar if not more than that per year per MS desktop....not
    including training.......then add in this is a migration budget and not
    BAU....upgrading from 2000 to XP....ouch....without MS's pre-paid
    extortion tax (what was it Genuine Assurance something or other? and
    what exactly did companies who bought it get? apart from an empty
    wallet) new full OS and office licences are going to cost a shed
    load....plus training staff, plus upgrading all the backends....sms,
    rollout systems.......

    There is a saying, never argue with a fool......people may not know the


    thingy, Oct 29, 2006
  11. MaHogany

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Ignoring for now that your figures are incorrect, it seems to me that
    businesses are not investing in training Windows users, assuming that
    this somehow magically just "happens" while they are using the computer
    on the job. Hence the TCO for Windows appears lower.

    Judging by the appalling lack of knowledge of most PC users, this isn't so.

    The extra spending on training for the Linux migration is probably what
    should be spent on *all* PC users as a matter of course.
    -=rjh=-, Oct 29, 2006
  12. MaHogany

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Which is why I don't argue with you, shit-for-brains.
    Fred Dagg, Oct 29, 2006
  13. MaHogany

    Earl Grey Guest

    It's expensive running the special trains to the "training camps" !!
    Earl Grey, Oct 29, 2006
  14. MaHogany

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Missed the 38%. Still a heap for training, however.
    It's the same for a several-day Windows/Office course. Of which few
    would require, due to the fact that most people know how to use MS
    $500 a seat really is nothing considering the benefits of Windows and
    Office. Really, it's not. And it's nothing compared to the additional
    costs (such as *training*) of attempting to install a non-standard
    non-status quo setup.
    What's this "information required to do the job" bizzo?? Seems a bit
    vague. And do you not need "information to do the job" to run a Linux
    Since when? An renewal every 3 years or so? That's not exactly
    Windows boxes should be locked down in an enterprise environment. The
    only reason home users get so many viruses and so much spyware is that
    they run as the equivalent of "root". In a properly setup enterprise
    environment, users are run non-privileged accounts and are protected
    from the majority of viruses and spyware.
    Actually, personal experience with both. Lots of it.
    Fred Dagg, Oct 29, 2006
  15. MaHogany

    Fred Dagg Guest

    Nice reasoned rebuttal.

    As expected.
    Fred Dagg, Oct 30, 2006
  16. MaHogany

    steve Guest

    You make it up as you go along....I hope that you, at least, are having fun.
    steve, Oct 30, 2006
  17. MaHogany

    steve Guest

    Good point, though those who can't tell the difference will be ignorant of
    the truth and vulnerable to misinformation.
    steve, Oct 30, 2006
  18. MaHogany

    Blue Guest

    And the other one, Never argue with a fool, for there will then be two
    Blue, Oct 30, 2006
  19. MaHogany

    steve Guest

    It's all you're worth, mate.

    You don't deal in facts. You deal in beliefs.

    I waste as little time as possible on you and your denia-verse.
    steve, Oct 30, 2006
  20. MaHogany

    Fred Dagg Guest

    You're a tool, Withers.

    The fact is, you can't deny that it costs more to teach people to use
    Linux than to use the operating system and office package they've been
    using their entire lives.

    And really, you can't honestly state that the buggy, bloated
    "OpenOffice" is anywhere near as good as MS's offering, can you?
    Fred Dagg, Oct 30, 2006
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