French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Doomsday Machine, May 1, 2008.

  1. French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
    Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

    French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
    Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG

    What are we talking about?

    Many helpful Links and Video links at end of post.

    In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The Large
    Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
    the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17 miles
    will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The principal
    behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest elements
    of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
    further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
    thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
    Electrons, and Protons discovered.

    The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
    "Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
    Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
    believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
    observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
    (specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the average
    person, at near c( .99999999 % the speed of light).

    To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two beams
    will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
    roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
    1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV. Although
    such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space, this
    will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
    Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other possibilities
    that could arise.

    Why haven't I heard about this before?

    Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
    lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
    even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a lot
    more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
    geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
    covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of interest,
    or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of understanding
    something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
    other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
    why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
    it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful scientific
    Expirement of al time.

    Why We're Concerned

    To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
    the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator in
    history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
    Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
    invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger and
    More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
    accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
    increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction of
    the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH Production,
    Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as relevant

    So, what's different this time?

    This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
    different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
    explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for these
    scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a total
    combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies generated
    by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality, in
    fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here is
    an excerpt from Safety at the LHC

    "If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
    higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
    still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC are
    harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
    process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
    matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
    evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it vanishes.
    If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
    only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only way
    they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their decay."
    We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next section.

    So, what's the problem?

    In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
    evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
    being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
    never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
    that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
    Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer Published
    a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
    Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
    not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
    Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)

    In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
    theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community such
    as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced, which
    do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
    previously thought.

    The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
    safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately references
    Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be incorrect
    then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential rate.

    Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create Black
    Holes on Purpose?

    Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish to
    usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies in
    Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
    which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in fact
    not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
    Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
    nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.

    Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?

    Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
    addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton beam
    is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in each
    beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no collision
    would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative sense
    any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
    beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest, or
    to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
    velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.

    At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain a
    rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
    exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct center
    of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly

    Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
    "Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black Holes?

    It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem with
    representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified as
    None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
    zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
    prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not be
    occurring in the first place.

    The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a very
    unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000 protons
    for the collisions, but exposing them to temperatures colder than space as
    well (1.9 K or -271 C). These types of collisions in a sense are unnatural
    because collisions at those speeds and temperature would never happen,
    meaning at the point of activation, no one will truly know these results
    until they occur, in a matter of Femtoseconds we would be placing the entire
    world in potential Danger. I've seen many websites calculate
    possiblity/problem or a percentage of risk, however without many of these
    theories as proof, there is no accurate way to calcuate them, So although
    the risk potential is unknown, the risk can never be calculated at zero.

    Although the credence given Strange Matter production, and it's subsequent
    catalytic behavior by the scientific community is not always mutual. Certain
    types of Strange Matter could be formed that would catalytically convert all
    matter that it touches into strange matter as well, although this is not as
    likely as creating a Black Hole, it's worth mentioning because it is a

    I want to learn more, where can I go?

    The internet is a good place, it brought you here, didn't it? Of course you
    could always visit the links on the site, and take part in our discussion on
    the forum, I would recommend familiarizing yourself with all the issues, and
    a basic understanding of Black Holes won't hurt either, of course I can
    always recommend reading A Brief History of Time or the Universe in a
    Nutshell there is always Google, for as many people as there are concerned,
    there are people who believe the danger is zero, it's important for you, to
    properly evaluate the facts and come to your own conclusion, of course we
    would like your support, however, the goal of this web site is information,
    discussion, action, and rationale, we are real people after all, and so are

    Thinking outside the box can't hurt either, I encourage you to Talk to a
    Professor at a local college, write a Letter to CERN, do whatever you need
    to do to inform yourself and make an informed decision, any contribution you
    make, even discussing with one other single person in the world, has the
    possibility to make all the difference.


    Large Hadron Collider


    LHC Concerns

    National Geograhic - The God Particle

    BBC News - Lab Fireball May Have Been Black Hole

    An Open Letter To Stephen Hawking

    Black Holes On Demand (George Street Journal)

    CBC News - LHC

    New York Times - LHC Dangerous?

    LHC 17 Miles Around Photos - New Tork Times

    LHC Legal Defense Fund

    MySpace STOP CERN Website

    LHC Risk Evaluation Forum

    YouTube music Video Of The Atom Smasher (LHC) Black Hole Generator

    French Build Doomsday Machine

    U-Tube Videos


    Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [1 of 3]

    Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [2 of 3]

    Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [3 of 3]

    The Large Hadron Collider: The End Of The Universe?

    Doomsday Machine, May 1, 2008
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  2. Doomsday Machine

    thanatoid Guest


    The sooner this stinking vermin-ridden planet disappears from
    the universe, the better. Thanks for giving me some hope in this

    Of course, it is no easy matter to be polite; in so far, I mean,
    as it requires us to show great respect for everybody, whereas
    most people deserve none at all; and again in so far as it
    demands that we should feign the most lively interest in people,
    when we must be very glad that we have nothing to do with them.

    - Arthur Schopenhauer
    thanatoid, May 1, 2008
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