First Digital Camera! What to spend?G3 or new Digital Rebel

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Pete, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. Pete

    Pete Guest

    I have narrowed my first Digital camera down to a Canon due to all the
    great things I have heard and read about them.

    My wife and I take a normal amount of pictures and in the future will
    probably get a descent photo printer. We are by no means professionals
    but I am getting all caught up in the new EOS Digital Rebel hype. I
    had my mind set on either the G2 or the G3 but now I'm looking at the
    new Canon SLR.

    One question I have is does a moderate picture taker like myself need
    a $1000 camera or is the G3 for $500 plenty enough camera for your
    everyday guy?

    I just like the fact if I wanted to change the lens I could but will
    probably never purchase any extra lenses. Even if I don't get any
    more lenses is the 6.3 Rebel worth the $500 more dollars over a 4
    megapixel camera?

    Also on the Rebel is there a live LCD screen where you see the picture
    your about to take? I see the pictures on the website and see a LCD
    screen and a viewfinder but wasn't sure how that worked.

    Thanks
    Pete

    P.S. When does the Rebel ship I thought it was like this week?
     
    Pete, Sep 18, 2003
    #1
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  2. as far as I know (and I don't keep track of EVERY digicam) all SLR's
    have no live preview. I'm hoping someone on the NG will refute my
    statement if I'm wrong, as I'd LOVE to eventually get a DSLR with live
    preview...then there's the issue of 'blooming' that I see in Canon S40
    pics and sample photos made with other digicams, so I'm gonna be on the
    "fence" as someone recently remarked, until the blooming "blooming" is
    fixed.

    If you aren't gonna change lenses, I'd go for the G-3. It's a good step
    up from my S40 due to faster, better lens and movable screen, as well as
    a host of other cool features. Plus everyone says the battery life is
    good on the G-3. on the S-40 it's very short. The smaller my cameras,
    the more I tote them, and then I get more pictures, which is the name of
    the game.


    dave
     
    Bay Area Dave, Sep 18, 2003
    #2
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  3. Pete

    Lew Guest

    Hi Pete,

    You haven't really described the type of photography you and your wife are
    into so I'm going to assume that you take "snapshot" pictures (family,
    vacation, friends, etc).
    Based on the statement "probably never purchase any extra lenses", I think
    the G2 or G3 may be a better fit for you.

    I've used a Canon Powershot S/30 for the past couple of years and have been
    very happy with the results. I was planning on upgrading to the Sony f717
    (or 818 when it came out), but then Canon announced the Digital Rebel. I
    just bought a Digital Rebel yesterday (I'm in Toronto) and the kit lens
    (18-55) is ok...but just ok. I'm already planning on getting a decent
    everyday lens, a zoom lens and another for macro work. Added all together,
    the Digital Rebel will be exponentially more $$$ than the G2 (or G3).

    Here's a link the to some pictures that different people have taken with a
    G3:

    http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/browse?sort=rating-d&id=5629

    The Digital Rebel LCD screen is only for viewing your pictures AFTER you
    take them. You cannot compose a shot using the LCD. The flip-out LCD of
    the Gx (x= 2,3,5) cameras is convenient for shooting from different angles.
    You can also purchase tele-converters for the Gx for wide-angle or for a
    longer zoom so even though you can't change the lens...you can change the
    focal lengths.

    Also, don't get caught up in the megapixel hype! Unless you plan on making
    large prints (over 8X10), you don't need more than 3-4 Mps. If anything,
    you'll probably find yourself REDUCING the size of the image especially when
    emailing pictures to friends and family. My Powershot S/30 is a 3 Mp
    camera...but I shot all my vacation shots at 2 Mp. I got over 220 pics on a
    256Mb CF card....and they were still too big to email!

    Hope that helps,

    ...Lew..
     
    Lew, Sep 18, 2003
    #3
  4. Pete

    Dave Guest

    "One question I have is does a moderate picture taker like myself need
    a $1000 camera or is the G3 for $500 plenty enough camera for your
    everyday guy?"

    The above comment applied to us and we just got our 1st dig. cam. yesterday
    after 3 weeks of research.
    G3 was high on my list because of the battery and LCD. Also I seriously
    looked at the Oly 750, Fuji 602Z pro, and the Oly 5050 and the one I finally
    chose was the the Sony DSC-V1 because it is more compact, very well built,
    leading edge technology etc...
    They are all excellent cameras but each with their own adv/dis
    Dave
     
    Dave, Sep 18, 2003
    #4
  5. Hi Pete

    I'm in agreement with other folks responding on this
    thread: given your stated needs/desires, you don't need
    the Digital Rebel.

    Have fun with whatever you get ... it's a wonderful time
    to be making images ....

    Stan
     
    Stanley Krute, Sep 18, 2003
    #5
  6. Pete

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Here's one more view :)

    The Rebel will give you

    - a few more megapixels..
    - faster autofocus
    - better low light performance
    - the ability to add other lenses

    If you really need that, then you should spend the extra $500.

    Note that the Rebel does not have movie mode or any of the extra features like
    black&white or sepia modes.

    You will also have to contend with dust gathering on the sensor and showing up
    as spots in your photos.

    I'm sure the rebel ships without a compact flash card (like the 10D). Consider
    that if you buy the Rebel, you'll also need to spend at least $100 for a
    reasonable amount of flash memory.
    Yes there is an LCD screen with menu funcitons and image review. The LCD
    screen is dead however when you're taking pictures. You can only compose
    through the optical viewfinder.
     
    Jim Townsend, Sep 18, 2003
    #6
  7. Pete

    Stuart B. Guest

    I would say that until you can clearly describe why you are spending
    $500 more for the SLR, you probably won't get much value for double
    the money.

    Certainly there are reasons (plenty) for some people to buy the
    digital Rebel, but until you can build your own list that is specific
    to your use, it seems quite unlikely that it will be worth it for you.

    Fact is, there are quite a few 3 MP cameras that are substantially
    chaper than even the G3, that _might_ meet your needs. (Depending on
    how much control you want, what you typically shoot and how large of
    prints you make).

    For example, the answer of which to get for somebody who liked to
    consistently shoot in low light w/o a flash, and blow up their bird
    photographs to 11x14 is very different then the answer for somebody
    that takes flash snapshots of the family at Christmas and never prints
    anything larger than a 5x7.

    Stuart B
     
    Stuart B., Sep 18, 2003
    #7
  8. Pete

    MarkH Guest

    (Pete) wrote in
    There are many advantages with the G3 or the Digital Rebel.
    Oh yes, it’s worth it.
    No live feed to the LCD, you can check the pictures that you are taking
    to see if they look about right, but only once they are taken not before.


    Here’s your major problem: You wont know what you need till you buy a
    camera and start using it, by then you have already bought it and made
    the wrong/right choice.

    The G3 is a good camera and has advantages like:
    Cheap for its quality.
    Smaller and lighter than an SLR.
    Can preview on its swivel LCD.
    Can do video (though not like the camcorders).

    The digital rebel has several advantages like:
    6MPix with low noise, usable right up to ISO 1600.
    Several times better in low light - 50mm f1.8 is under $100 and with ISO
    1600 will be usable in very poor light.
    If you want more zoom you can buy another lens, some are very cheap but
    may provide results that you are more than happy with.
    Quicker more responsive picture taking, good for sports and action.


    A friend bought a G3 then sold it after a few months to buy a Canon 10D.
    He liked the G3 but ISO 400 was unacceptably noisy for him. He also
    wanted more zoom, at an air show the G3 couldn’t do what he wanted.

    Your question is what photos will you take? Low light? Sports and
    action? Birds or planes in flight?

    The G3 will do well in many situations but is limited by its lens (to 35-
    140mm unless you add adaptors) and its sensor (4MPix and noisy at ISO 200
    and 400).


    I would go with the D-SLR, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily
    should.
     
    MarkH, Sep 18, 2003
    #8
  9. Pete

    Wdflannery Guest

    I have a G2 ..... and I use the LCD for framing almost all the time .... I
    can't believe the DSLR's don't have it along with a mirror lock up ..... based
    on that....I'd definitely go with the G2 or G3. Takes great pics, easy to use,
    the G2 fits in my (large) pocket, but the G3 has a longer lens.

    Will
    www.ucsmiles.com
     
    Wdflannery, Sep 19, 2003
    #9
  10. Pete

    lilo Guest

    G3 is an excellent go-everywhere camera. I carry it around most of
    time, especially when I travel abroad. And it is no kiddie camera
    either. But again, I also own EOS 3. G3 has excellent LCD which you
    can turn to different angles and positions.
     
    lilo, Sep 19, 2003
    #10
  11. Pete

    Dan Pidcock Guest

    If you had a DSLR you wouldn't need to frame with the LCD as the
    viewfinder is much more accurate.
    Live image preview is not available on DSLRs because of the type of
    CCD sensor. You cannot make a sensor that has low noise and can do
    live preview for a marketable cost.

    Dan
     
    Dan Pidcock, Sep 19, 2003
    #11
  12. Pete

    Kurt Brenner Guest

    My wife and I take a normal amount of pictures and in the future will
    The G3 is not only plenty enough, but is BETTER for someone like yourself.

    Here is why...
    You can do all the same manual adjustments as you can on the SLR, only
    before you learn all of them, you can put the camera in automatic mode and
    it will do everything for you just like a simple point and shoot camera.
    As you learn the manual adjustments, you can start taking over.

    Another thing to keep in mind is the SLR cameras do NOT allow you to see
    what you are shooting in the LCD screen as the G3 does. So if you are
    taking a picture of a butterfly on a flower or something low to the
    ground, you would have to crawl down in the dirt in order to see through
    the eye piece with an SLR to see what you are taking a picture of with the
    camera. With the G3, you can stay on your feet and just hold the
    camera down there while looking at the LCD screen to make sure you are
    framed up to what you want to shoot.

    Losing this LCD preview feature would mean I would have to be lying down
    on the ground on my stomach for most of the shots I take. You can also
    take out and tilt the screen so you can hold the camera above a fence and
    take pictures over the fence while looking up at the LCD screen to see
    what you are taking a picture of. You can't do that with the SLRs
    either.
    I have the G3 and have not found need to buy the other lenses either. I
    don't know why they make a macro lens, because I can take beautiful macro
    close ups with the provided lens, and if the 4X zoom doesn't get something
    far away close enough, the resolution is so good, I can crop in later and
    zoom in some more at home and still get some good detail.
    I don't think you get that on any SLR type camera yet. I think the G3
    is the highest quality camera you can get that gives you the LCD preview.
     
    Kurt Brenner, Sep 19, 2003
    #12
  13. Pete

    Kurt Brenner Guest

    So would a LOT of us.
     
    Kurt Brenner, Sep 19, 2003
    #13
  14. Pete

    Wdflannery Guest

    You cannot make a sensor that has low noise and can do
    Thanks for the explanation.... as, it seemed inexplicable to me !
     
    Wdflannery, Sep 19, 2003
    #14
  15. The G3 has a terrific feature that's not available on the Rebel -- it's
    the most underrated feature on the camera. It can store custom
    configurations for you, with every setting and feature you'd prefer in a
    given situation, and recall that configuration just by turning the
    function knob.

    You can set the thing up in advance, and shoot away when necessary without
    horsing around with menus. It makes the LCD display unnecessary in many
    situations, so you can concentrate on taking photos (which is kind of the
    main idea).

    I keep one of my custom configurations set up as a point - and - shoot, so
    that when necessary, I just turn the dial to 'C1' and my ultra-flexible G3
    becomes as simple to use as a drugstore P&S.

    I have no idea why this wasn't incorporated into the Rebel...
     
    Robert A. Barr, Sep 19, 2003
    #15
  16. Pete

    Kurt Brenner Guest

    You cannot make a sensor that has low noise and can do
    You CAN, it is just not being done yet.

    Wait and see in a few years what we have then come back and see what you
    said here.
     
    Kurt Brenner, Sep 19, 2003
    #16
  17. Pete

    Kurt Brenner Guest

    The G3 has a terrific feature that's not available on the Rebel -- it's
    Yes, I use this a lot and it is a great feature.
    That I disagree with, as I don't feel like crawling on the dirt ground so that
    I can get my face to look through the eyepiece for most shots, I just hold the
    camera where ever it needs to be and tilt the LCD so I can frame up the shot
    without having to put my head and body in awkward positions. I don't know
    how people with D-SLRs would ever take some of the pictures I take without an
    LCD preview screen.
    But isn't that the point of the AUTO setting? That is what I use if I need
    the quick point and shoot mode. What do you set your C1 to, to make it a
    quick P&S mode that you find better than the AUTO setting?

    Another pointer..... Instead of turning the camera on and off between
    shots, just hit the display button to turn the LCD on and off. This saves
    much power, and as soon as you see something to shoot, you just hit the
    display button and all the settings and focus are ready for you to shoot.
     
    Kurt Brenner, Sep 19, 2003
    #17
  18. Most situations, but I'm talking about needing it for menu manipulation. You're
    talking about geometry, so yeah, the LCD is mighty handy for that -- when it's
    needed.
    Upskirts, hhmm? Gonna share?

    I preset it in aperture priority with an f-stop of 5 or 5.6, and flash forced on.
    Manual focus, set to about 5 feet. Zoom all the way in (wide). White balance set
    to 'flash'. This way, my effective depth of field is about 2.5 feet on out (to
    maybe 800 feet). Redeye reduction turned off, all beeps / noises turned off.

    This makes it almost instant, with no focus delay, and no focus assist lamp.
    Victims never see it coming, so they don't flinch.

    Either 'Auto' or an external flash is needed for anything beyond about ten feet or
    so (after dark, of course). I use the 380EX, and the results are terrific.
    Or just shoot. The display is often not needed.
     
    Robert A. Barr, Sep 20, 2003
    #18
  19. Pete

    Pete Guest

    Just another quick question about the G3 which I am leaning more
    towards and my wife is happier that were spending less money. Little
    does she know I'll just get something extra with the ATV I'm going to
    get lol.

    Anyway, is it possible to hold the shoot button down to take several
    shots in a row or do you click then have to wait and then take another
    picture.

    Thanks

    Pete
     
    Pete, Sep 20, 2003
    #19
  20. Yes. Oversimplified answer, but...
    Usually not.
    Like most digicams in its price range, it will do what you're asking --
    continuous shooting. It has two separate modes for this, and it's a bit
    confusing, but it'll fire off as many shots as its buffer can handle
    before pausing to transfer data from the buffer to the CF card.

    For the exact numbers, I'd suggest reading a few of the reviews; there's a
    lot of in-depth information out there.
     
    Robert A. Barr, Sep 20, 2003
    #20
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