Exploring Linux with Ubuntu

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Au79, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. Au79

    Top Guest

    Top, Jul 22, 2006
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  2. YW. :)
     
    William Poaster, Jul 22, 2006
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  3. Au79

    Fuzzy Logic Guest

    What's good for you may be useless to me and vice versa. You should never assume that just becuase it's
    great for you everyone else will want it.
    Depends on what you mean by 'deal with'? Yes there are threats out there but amazingly they can easily be
    circumvented by common sense:

    http://comsense.microscum.com/
    This has never been my experience. Again YMMV.
    An interesting article on the 5 shortcomings of *nix:

    http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=business06_july11_2006
     
    Fuzzy Logic, Jul 25, 2006
  4. Fuzzy Logic wrote:

    ......
    Sounds reasonable, but not too much educated.
    While a real firewall (NAT router or "hardware" firewall) really
    gives "some" additional security, but still cannot block trojans sent via
    e-mail, a "personal firewall" just gives a cosy feeling. Just like it won't
    detect WGA's attempts to phone home, it won't detect a virus or trojan
    using the same hooks.
    Turning off automatic updates is sometimes a good idea for computers running
    non-standard programs (labs, specialized workstations) but not the
    uber-advice for all the kiddies running "borrowed" versions.
    With hundreds of w2k installations at work, I notice only pent-up
    uninstallers, other crap, and fragmented partitions tend to slow down
    windows.
    When a computer suddenly turns slow, it's either a "background task", some
    new av definition making the av engine run amuck, or a harddrive on it's
    way out.
    That I have to comment ...

    "From his experience, he said, there were five things that were just awful
    under Linux:"
    1. Wi-fi setup;

    Runs fine once you have the appropriate hardware. Centrino is well supported
    in the meantime, good old Orinoco runs out of the box (Mandriva here), and
    atheros (madwifi-dkms) works as an AP on my box, with a nice gui tool to
    configure (that even works sometimes, but what are configuration files
    for? ;-))

    2. Printing setup;

    At work, with a lot of HP jetdirect attached printers, they are all found
    automagically by linux, including the device type info.
    Windows refuses to auto-detect any of them.

    3. High-end video card setup, especially for ATI cards;

    Nvidia is a breeze. Goes with dkms as well, if you insist :)

    4. Connecting with digital cameras; and

    Contrary experience. For my trusty old kodak I need a windows driver (no
    direct mass storage otherwise). Linux (Mandriva again) was plug-and-play.
    Most other cameras will just appear as usb drives.

    5. Sound setup.

    New "HD sound" and very old cards, which require alsaconf, may both have
    issues in configuration. Still, you are not completely out of business with
    linux, compared to windows without driver cds/floppies.
    Many sound cards these days are the same kind as winmodems ("ac97") and
    often even share chipsets. These are just emulations, with a dac/adc, a few
    condensers and a socket attached.

    Since linux does not (want to) rely upon hardware driver support - open
    specifications to write their own drivers are most welcome to linux
    developers - you can get a huge amount of these drivers, together with a
    sophisticated auto-detection, on just one linux distribution. That's one of
    the reasons why installation of linux distributions actually is a one-step
    process with only one reboot and autodetection / insertion of most drivers,
    while windows needs a bunch of drivers supplied, with lotta reboots
    necessary in between.
     
    Walter Mautner, Jul 26, 2006
  5. The first thing is, it was written by Eric Raymond, & this guy was just
    quoting second-hand. As has been said in some linux groups, Mr. Raymond
    Eric Raymond also used a third party application to setup CUPS (heaven
    knows why) he wasn't using native CUPS tools. I've never had any problems
    with using CUPS, & I *have* used Ubuntu as well as Kubuntu.
    Got different nVIDIA cards in each machine, setup was a no-brainer.

    Up until a short time ago, ATi linux drivers were not very good. I
    understand that they have improved.
    Quite right. Mine isn't supported, but plug in the USB lead, switch on, &
    it's detected as USB Mass Storage. No drivers required! :)
    It's funny how these people blame GNU/linux if there are no drivers, when
    it's actually the *manufacturer* who is to blame for either not releasing
    information, or not making GNU/linux drivers.
    If there were no Windows drivers for a piece of hardware, who would they
    blame *then*, MS or the hardware manufacturers?
     
    William Poaster, Jul 26, 2006
  6. Au79

    Ponder Guest

    Hiya William Poaster.

    I think it's a testament to the Linux community that so much works
    without hardware vendor support actually.
     
    Ponder, Jul 26, 2006
  7. Au79

    Jimchip Guest

    Zone Alarm blocks the phone homers. It plays pretty well with Avast so
    I still use ZA. I bet I don't need it, though... "it's just in case".

    I agree with the paragraph above.

    [snip]
    Do you use vlc to play DVD's? Or which app? When I looked at Suse it had
    slightly restricted media in the distro because of (German?) digital
    rights laws. I know there are post-install workarounds (like everything
    else, Win or Lin).

    Only 5? :)
    My HP inkjet was automatic with Linux and a 50MB download from HP for
    Windows.
    ATI is automatic with Xorg's driver except full 3D. ATI's driver is need
    for the whole magilla. Dual-head setups are here to stay :) Dual-head is
    more point-and-click with Windows.
    Debian...plug and play. Plug and play for my Seagate Firewire backup
    drive if it's turned on before I boot. Manually, it's easy to mount but
    it doesn't autodetect like WinExplorer does, "just out of the box".
    I actually *paid* $20 for a Linux modem driver for a computer that has
    to be able to connect (dialup) even if broadband is down. The $20 was
    cheaper than the equivalent non-Rockwell modem. Linuxant let's one
    download the driver first, slightly crippled, (it autoinstalls), and if
    it works...website, $20, email password...full 56K in under 20 min.
    The above also helps to explain the "video driver problem". Using ATI &
    Nvidia as sole examples, they are still proprietary (perhaps rightfully
    so) and the most often Linux complaint, IMO, is that full, out of the
    box, "rock 'em, sock 'em" 3D video is lacking in linux. But also, there
    still is the possiblity of the "tainted kernel" if one installs the
    proprietary release drivers. A little extra work is required to achieve
    full video.
     
    Jimchip, Jul 26, 2006
  8. Au79

    Jimchip Guest

    Raymond is worth reading but not religiously :) in spite of the fact
    that he wrote "The Cathedral and the Bazaar..."
    http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue3_3/raymond/

    [snip]
    Maybe he is a god and a heaven does know why. :)
    Perhaps us mere mortals just don't understand why Raymond appeared to
    act like a moron and not do it the easy way.

    Or, he could have happened to have it around and wanted to try it out.
    IMO, they are neck and neck. ATI was a little slower to catch on
    earlier. Also, though, there is a big difference between a typical
    user's desktop install and what might be needed for development. IIRC,
    both proprietary drivers tweak the kernel enough so anybody programming
    open-source graphics has to be careful about what might get back-copied
    during a typical compile or what libraries are linked to the app. If
    someone isn't programming..."no problemo". And there is no concern with
    the Xorg supplied drivers wrt open-source issues.
    [snip]
    I think the manufacturers might have to play it the way they do. They
    are locking up their technology to keep it away from Microsoft which
    causes it not to be available to Linux. They are going to write drivers
    for Windows first (that is where the money is) but I really think that
    MS would love to get hold of a big video company with the driver
    code(s). And the driver manufacturers can't put all the code out there
    'cuz MS would just take it.
     
    Jimchip, Jul 26, 2006
  9. It's puzzling, isn't it.
    Possibly, but to blame CUPS for what *he* did seems silly IMHO.
    Good point, & MS probably would love to grab the codes.
    However, manufactureers could make proprietry linux drivers themselves
    (like nVIDIA, who haven't released any code)? They must realise that
    they're beginning to lose out on an expanding market. With a growing Asian
    market, it's perhaps why Canon was suddenly prompted to release a limited
    number of linux drivers in 2005, however they won't support them:
    http://www.free-press-release.com/news/200506/1117671081.html
     
    William Poaster, Jul 26, 2006
  10. Au79

    Jimchip Guest

    Raymond is really good, IMO, but even he can make a mistake...unless,
    you know, Eric's "god-thing" is true :)
    ATI has proprietary drivers for Linux, too. Canon might be more than
    "prompted". There are nice things about competition and user choices.

    The proprietary drivers just cause more heightened awareness for
    open-source programmers so that they don't back any of it into their
    stuff. But, typically, one might have a development machine that's
    totally clean and then the typical user desktop that's not all
    open-source. It's not a big deal. Just because I prefer xpenguins to
    glxgears doesn't mean that we can't play with both. :)
     
    Jimchip, Jul 26, 2006
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