experience of returning camera to Best Buy

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Racer X, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Racer X

    Steve Guest

    Store policy is always trumped by the law, and there isn't any disagreement that the
    law requires them to make good on defective merchandise. The law doesn't say they
    have to offer a refund, so if the customer wants a refund instead of an exchange the
    store is welcome to charge a restocking fee if that is their usual policy. In the
    case of an exchange there isn't much reason to force the customer to demonstrate the
    defect. If the store does insist that the customer prove the defect and the customer
    is unable to do so on the spot the store will be very sorry if the customer does it
    in small claims court. Since the law requires them to make good I'd say the onus is
    on the store to show that there isn't any requirement to fix the problem becaue the
    problem doesn't exist.

    In the case of the OP, it sounds like he was given a refund when the store was
    entitled to just replace the camera, keep their profit, and return the defective
    camera to the manufacturer. The store may have made him jump through some hoops, but
    it sounds like they did him a favor.



    --
    Steve

    The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
    belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

    If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
     
    Steve, Jan 16, 2006
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  2. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Wrong, as always.

    And the written law you want is the UCC in the US anyway.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
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  3. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Wrong. They cant 'restock' a defective good.
    Wrong again. Any operation with a clue wont
    foist a defective item onto the next customer.
    Just as true when the customer requires a refund when they
    have decided that the goods arent of merchantable quality
    and that is the reason they dont want an exchange.
    And legally they are obliged to take reasonable steps to ensure
    that defective goods arent foisted on the next customer. When
    the customer returning the goods has said that the goods are
    defective, its the store's responsibility to check that claim.
    That is legally just plain wrong too when the OP decided after
    finding quite a few reports of the same problem he found with the
    camera he received that the design is not of merchantably quality.
    They are legally welcome to do that with goods not of merchantable quality.
    No they didnt, they were stupid enough to make it hard for the OP
    to get what he is legally entitled to, and as a result have had their
    stupid approach exposed to quite a few other potential customers.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
  4. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    That is just plain wrong in many jurisdictions. ALL it takes
    is for a reasonable sales monkey to feel threatened, legally.

    And he isnt 'offering up' either.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
  5. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    I think that should be, "...An other alternative..." to a policy of
    actually checking for the defect being real.
    In the case at hand, we are discussing a return *for refund*. That
    means a return of the purchase price, based on the item being
    defective. This costs the retailer money, which must be made up
    somewhere, and the usual way this is done is to charge the customer
    base more, which no one really wants.
    Thus, the need to keep such return to a minimum.
    Some stores, like Fry's Electronics, have a 30-day, no questions asked
    return policy. Thinking this doesn't increase costs to the consumer is
    indicative of a lack of understanding of basic economics.
    Using Fry's as the examp[le again, they have a series of workstations
    at the entrance, to handle returns. The people manning these stations
    are (somewhat) skilled in recognizing and troubleshooting problems in
    the products Fry's sells, and there are specialists available to help
    out. In many cases (I've seen this) they can help a customer
    understand how to use whatever device is the cause of a return for
    defect, and in others (most) they can verify the problem. Fyr's does a
    lot of business,and I seriously doubt they'd use this system if it
    didn't help their bottom line. (I often wonder why the customer is
    willing to put up with this system, because they can (and I have)
    simply say, "I don't want this" and get a refund. See below.)
    BestBuy, OTOH, doesn't use this system. While I have no access to
    their think tank at the top, I can safely surmise that they don't use
    this system for a reason. Possibly it's because they have a different
    customer base, and they figure it's better for them to do away with
    the immediate check, because they figure their customer base will be
    put off by such a check. Seeing he comments here, this may well be
    right. Different stores must take into account their intended target
    demographics, and customize their policies to fit that base. If that
    means treating their customers like idiots, while telling them that
    they are actually very smart (for shopping at BestBuy, for example),
    so be it. (Like idiots, in the sense that they really shouldn't bother
    their little heads with things like *instructions*; the store will
    just take the items back, and charge more to take up the costs.)
    The two policies (Fry's and BestBuy) seem similar, but they aren't. At
    Fry's it takes only a few minutes to determine if there really are
    problems, at a relatively low cost per incident. BestBuy. OTOH,
    accepts far more returns; on a per-incident basis, I suspect this
    costs much more to the consumer.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  6. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Not the way you report it, no.
    Got a cite?
    Got a cite?
    Or is this just the way *you* think it ought to be, so it is?
    So far, nothing to indicate otherwise.
    Got a cite?
    Got a cite?
    You're so sure this is true, it should be easy to provide a cite.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  7. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Keeping to the subject at hand (a customer bringing in an item,
    coaiming it's defective, for a refund, in a store that will only
    accept such if the product is actually defective), the law (at least
    in Arizona) does place the onus of proving a defect exists on the
    customer.
    I've seen this explained in small claims court several times.
    The fact that a law requires defective items to be accepted by a store
    for refund does not require the store to prove the defect or lack of
    defect. The fact that some stores take this upon themselves is not
    because the law requires it.
    I agree with this.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  8. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Personally, I have found CompUSA to be far worse than BestBuy.
    It took a Federal law to get them to post prices on the shelf or
    product (literally). Their staffing level is totally inadequate. And
    the staff seems to be instructed to tell everyone with a question to
    go to the customer service counter. The return/refund counter is
    usually overwhelmed.
    And, to top it off, their prices are no bargain, either. But they do
    advertise a lot.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  9. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Rita, you seem to exhibit an interesting quality: when caught, you
    immediatly act as though you were right, change course, and drive on.

    Yes, he got a refund (which is what I needed to point out was his
    initial request, not an exchange as you said), and I've pointed out in
    this thread that, indeed, he got his refund, and in 20 minutes
    (including a wait in line) which I don't think is so bad.
    It's a non-sequitor, as it doesn't address the subject, which is
    getting a refund for a defective product. Your comment was about
    buying online, and the fact that it's less expensive and you get a
    factory sealed box, which you seldom find defective.
    Do you see the difference?
    But here you are describing *your* wants, with no regard for the rest
    of the world.
    They "damn well better have had a "No Refunds" sign posted at the
    register or on the merchandise you are trying to sell me"? Well, you
    can do that as a personal demand before you will do business with
    them, but that doesn't alter how a company does business.
    But you had to call instead of go in person, because you bought
    online, so a call first was a necessity. You couldn't do this in
    person. (You could have emailed, but the experience otherwise would
    have been the same.)
    You don't seem to be understanding the thread at hand, and instead
    seem to be using your own experience as the rule we should use to
    measure things.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  10. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Are you serious?
    In the described (fictional) incident, the *intent* was to threaten
    the clerk's life with a deadly weapon. The result was that the clerk
    was in fact threatened.
    Maybe a few days spent watching coutrooms will help here, as it would
    show that many commonly held ideas about the law are just so wrong.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  11. Huh? Caught in what?
    We've established this in the OP's initial post that he *DID* get a refund.
    The issue I had is with your suggestion of unnecessarily going to
    extraordinary means of "making a tape" to prove a factory defect. Why would
    anyone want or need to do this when the item they bought is either defective
    or doesn't meet the manufacturer's *advertised* claims of fulfilling the
    buyer's needs? Maybe in the OP's case of using the store's policy to gain
    "free rent" of the item. This thread only proves that in *some* stores it
    takes more bitching and feet stomping to get your full refund, but
    ultimately you will.
    How does it *not* address the subject of getting a refund? You're claiming
    on-line merchants never give refunds? My statement takes all this into
    consideration *PLUS* it eliminates or reduces the problems we are discussing
    before they even happen.
    How so? Are you saying a consumer is wrong for wanting to get exactly what
    they were promised and paid for?
    Sure it alters how I do business with a company and it *will* alter how a
    company does business when they have to deal with the problem. Only thing
    they are doing is dragging out the inevitable of giving the customer their
    money back and souring future potential relationships with that customer.
    In some cases this is good since the store benefits, but the good *paying*
    customers that get caught up in this and refuse to spend any more money in
    that store result in a loss for that merchant. Best Buy and Circuit City
    lost me as a good customer. Yes, I do spend a lot so they really did screw
    the pooch on this one.
    It's the same means to the end using a different form of communication.
    What's unreasonable about calling a merchant and civilly discussing an issue
    with them? Personally, I find it more pleasant dealing with some merchants
    over the phone or via e-mail than dealing with untrained teenage drones
    face-to face.
    I do understand and I have offered a viable solution to avoid this nonsense
    before it happens. Do you think that our favorite camera merchants such as
    B&H, Adorama, and Cameta would get the high praise they get by using Best
    Buy and Circuit City's tactics?







    Rita
     
    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Jan 16, 2006
  12. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    Not responding to the content of the post you're responding to,
    instead changing it to something else.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 16, 2006
  13. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Your problem. It should be obvious that the detail with commercial
    transactions has been around for a hell of a lot longer than statute law.
    Have a look at when the first of the statute law appeared.

    Its even arguable that stuff like the talmud is a form of common law.
    The UCC is the most obvious example with the US.
    Easy to claim. Have fun explaining the UCC.
    Dont need one on that either.
    Cites aint that easy with decisions in the small claims court.
    They dont get listed on the net for example.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
  14. Racer X

    Rod Speed Guest

    Its more complicated than that, most obviously when that approach
    sees more customers use their stores, because of that policy.

    That may well see the increased volume that pays
    for policy so there is no need to increase the price.

    And the other economic factor is that particularly with low end items
    like toasters etc, you have to factor in the fact that you can dispense
    with knowledgable staff and just use cheap checkout monkeys in
    your store, so there is a real sense in which there is a tradeoff
    between paying more for knowledgeable staff and that sort of policy.

    Its nothing like as black and white as you are claiming there.

    I personally do use stores that have that sort of policy when it
    isnt clear when in the store that the item will do the job I require.
    That way when you do get it home and read the manual, and try
    to use it for what you want to do, and it doesnt do it as well as
    you require, you can just return it for a full refund if you want.
    Presumably some of the customers prefer some assistence
    with how to use the product than a full refund and have to go
    and find something else which may have the same problem.
    Its never as completely analysable as you are suggesting.

    Its impossible to quantify how may customers will be pissed
    off enough by a hard nosed no returns unless defective policy
    with the store demanding that the customer prove that the
    goods are defective to never bother with the store again, and
    the effect of them bad mouthing the store to everyone they know.
    Or when there are a variety of ways of doing
    things, its hardly surprising that some stores
    do it one way and others do it another way.

    And get to wear the result of that policy over time too.
    Or you get some 'managers' with different attitudes to others.
    Or realise that that sort of customer is very common, particularly
    with the usual rather poorly written instructions, and everyone
    has to deal with that problem, so it isnt store specific.
    No evidence for that in the prices.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 16, 2006
  15. Racer X

    miles Guest

    I find both stores horrible. Their customer service and sales staff is
    unknowledgable and/or non-existant. Most of their stuff is low-end at
    full retail prices.
     
    miles, Jan 17, 2006
  16. Racer X

    Bill Funk Guest

    They both specialize in 'consumer' stuff, which is, IMO, low-end by
    definition. By this, I mean the geeks don't shop there unless the ads
    offer something they can use at a truly low price. Otherwise, they
    stay away in droves.
     
    Bill Funk, Jan 17, 2006
  17. I have done much better with mom and pop places. I purchased my
    current computer 18 months ago. The store had various computers on their
    list but the owner was happy to mix and match. He even talked me down on
    a few items based on my needs.
    I have had to call him twice. Both times he came to the phone and
    walked me through the problem.
    By the way, I ordered the computer on a Saturday morning and was
    using it that evening. Saved at least $100 off of similar from the
    "discount" stores.
     
    George Grapman, Jan 17, 2006
  18. Racer X

    Keith Guest

    Did you expect otherwise? Competent electronics types don't come for
    $8/hr. One can always do better online and usually in other local stores
    (harder in some areas than others), but some insist on instant
    gratification.

    BBY's checkout turns me way off and I don't even think about walking into
    Circuit City (the only two in the area).
     
    Keith, Jan 17, 2006
  19. I tried three large stores before buying my computer and an indie
    place. Circuit City must have been on strike as there were no employees
    in the computer area. CompUSA had numerous packages. I only needed a
    computer and not a monitor. The clerk first told me that the package
    could not be broken up and then the manager offered such a meager
    discount for the computer w/o monitor that I thought and had not heard
    him correctly. Calls to Best Buy never got a live person.
     
    George Grapman, Jan 17, 2006
  20. Racer X

    Keith Guest

    I've built my own for at least a decade. One can ger much better quality
    for not much more money. Upgrades are far easier (possible) too.
     
    Keith, Jan 17, 2006
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