Epson 2200 printing dark

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by dperez, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. dperez

    dperez Guest

    As it says I've got an Epson 2200. I have been printing on the glossy photo
    paper and things look fine. BUT, I decided I want to do some prints on the
    matte paper and I'm getting dark prints......

    NO color shift, just dark. And before I go nuts trying to change a bunch of
    stuff so things work I want to find out if I'm causing my own problem...

    1. My Enhanced Matte paper hasn't arrived yet so I'm using the older standard
    matte paper from the 1200.

    2. I've got the new profiles from Epson.

    3. When I print there's no selection for the old matte so I'm using the
    Enhanced matte setting - is THIS likely to cause the problem?

    4. Since my black ink is mostly full I'm using the profile for the PK ink
    instead of the matte ink - is THIS likely to be causing the problem?

    I checked the monitor calibration and it hasn't changed so I don't think its a
    calibration problem... And as I said, things look FINE when printed on the
    glossy paper.

    So, is there a problem with the matte profile or is one of the things above
    causing the problem - in which case it'll go away once the enhanced matte paper
    arrives and I switch to the other black ink...
     
    dperez, Jan 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. dperez

    Bill Hilton Guest

    From: [email protected]_nospam.com
    Yes, this is likely the problem.

    You can swap the photo black and matte black in and out with little problem,
    the heads get purged but it only costs about $1 in ink.
    Probably not, the papers were similar.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Jan 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. dperez

    Jerry G. Guest

    I found that with some types of paper, the prints come out with different
    luminosity. You should tweak the settings for the brightness and contrast to
    calibrate for the difference. Using a known grey scale test is a good way to
    do it, or just simply do it by eye.

    You will use a number of sheets to get it right, but once you have the
    settings, you will know what to do for using that type of paper.

    I remember when I was working with film and print development. I used to do
    some trials when doing the prints. This was a bit complicated at times.
    There was the combination of negative to print exposure, and then the print
    development timing. Each had its own effect on the end result. After having
    a lot of experience, most of the time I was able to tell which type of
    adjustment was best for what I wanted.

    --

    Jerry G.
    ======


    As it says I've got an Epson 2200. I have been printing on the glossy photo
    paper and things look fine. BUT, I decided I want to do some prints on the
    matte paper and I'm getting dark prints......

    NO color shift, just dark. And before I go nuts trying to change a bunch of
    stuff so things work I want to find out if I'm causing my own problem...

    1. My Enhanced Matte paper hasn't arrived yet so I'm using the older
    standard
    matte paper from the 1200.

    2. I've got the new profiles from Epson.

    3. When I print there's no selection for the old matte so I'm using the
    Enhanced matte setting - is THIS likely to cause the problem?

    4. Since my black ink is mostly full I'm using the profile for the PK ink
    instead of the matte ink - is THIS likely to be causing the problem?

    I checked the monitor calibration and it hasn't changed so I don't think its
    a
    calibration problem... And as I said, things look FINE when printed on the
    glossy paper.

    So, is there a problem with the matte profile or is one of the things above
    causing the problem - in which case it'll go away once the enhanced matte
    paper
    arrives and I switch to the other black ink...
     
    Jerry G., Jan 5, 2005
    #3
  4. dperez

    dperez Guest

    Well, its even WORSE than I thought.............

    Its NOT just the matte paper.... EVERYTHING is printing dark.

    The only thing I can think of that I've changed is installing the printer on a
    new motherboard (old system died, new system in... )

    I initially installed it with the same printer driver, printer monitor, and icc
    profiles I was previously using.

    When I found that the glossy photo paper was ALSO printing dark I went out to
    Epson and got the newer printer driver. I ALSO uninstalled and reinstalled the
    icc profiles JUST IN CASE........

    No joy... EVERYTHING I print whether on matte paper OR gloss paper is coming
    out dark.........

    Unfortunately, as usual, I'm on deadline and need to get several prints done...
    And as it sits right now, they're too dark to be usable...

    I've sent an email off to Epson support but I really need to know what's going
    on here...
     
    dperez, Jan 5, 2005
    #4
  5. dperez

    Colin D Guest

    New mobo, new or different video card? Recalibrated your monitor? gamma
    2.2? Sounds very like monitor problems to me.

    Colin
     
    Colin D, Jan 6, 2005
    #5
  6. Colin D wibbled in this way:
    I believe this is a known issue with Epson printers and WinXP service
    pack 2 - so if you have that then that is probably the likely cause.

    There are new drivers on Epsons site for SP2 but I don't know if they fix
    it as I;ve not tried it. If you use Epson Photo Quicker to print from
    then you shouldn't be affected either way.

    Epson are releasing a new software package shortly to replace photo
    quicker which will also add support for their 7x5 PG photo paper. .

    HTH
    Dave
     
    David Beamish, Jan 6, 2005
    #6
  7. dperez

    dperez Guest

    Everybody pardon me for a moment while I let out a loud anguished scream!!!!!!

    I got a response from Epson. Unfortunately, it reiterated exactly the same
    process I've been using for the last year!!!!!!!

    As far as changes: The MOTHERBOARD and CPU are different, the video card is the
    same as the old system. Monitors are the same, printer is the same... Nothing
    peripheral has been moved (apparently moving stuff around can be a problem?)...

    The disk drives are the same, so I'm still using exactly the same Windows 2000
    Pro I was previously.

    I can't think of anything else that's been changed...

    I have NEVER had to do any fiddling with brightness or any settings in the
    printer since I got the new icc profiles last June... Just run the stuff in,
    tell the printer NOT to do any management and the prints looked like they did on
    the monitor. Luster paper, semi gloss, gloss photo, THEY ALL LOOKED FINE...

    Now they all look DARK! Even images I previously printed, when opened in PS CS
    and sent to the printer, PRINT DARKER THAN THEY DID A MONTH AGO...

    Just for grins I took an image I did previously, and once opened I took my
    levels layer and pushed it from 1.00 to 1.50. Yes, I made it so disgustingly
    bright that it looked ridiculous on the screen... Then I printed it... Its
    STILL dark... Not AS dark, but STILL darker than it was.

    I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE its gotta be SOME WIERD interaction between the system,
    drivers, whatever else is involved, and the printer. BUT I CAN'T figure out
    what.

    In desperation, I obliterated EVERY vestige of ANYTHING to do with Epson on the
    system. Cleaned out every registry value I could find. Uninstalled
    everything. Physically cleaned every file off the box... Then reinstalled.
    Prints exactly the same way...

    I've got one idea left - I'm going to install the printer stuff on the laptop,
    then plug the 2200 into the laptop. I'll pull an image off the main machine's
    disk and open it in PS on the laptop, then print it... HOPEFULLY, it'll print
    normally, which will give me a momentary work around...

    Does anybody have any idea what ELSE I should try? I'm out of ideas.

    If nothing else I"m going to call Epson on MOnday and bug somebody for an idea!
     
    dperez, Jan 8, 2005
    #7
  8. dperez

    dperez Guest

    OK, previously I was screaming in confusion and aggravation........

    I am now screaming because I HAVE to be the dumbest human that ever lived!

    In desperation I fired up the laptop and brought up PS on both machines.
    Displayed the same image.... AND GUESS WHAT... on the laptop it looks ALMOST
    exactly the same as on the printer (the laptop isn't the most calibratable
    screen!)..... On the Trinitron - BRIGHT, BRIGHT BRIGHT.

    Yup, the MONITOR is bright.... Even though I ran it thru Adobe Gamma AND Quick
    Gamma just to check - VERY DIFFERENT BRIGHTNESS..........

    Now, I ask myself - "Self, WHY so different?".......... Remember when I said I
    had to change the motherboard? Well, if you're gonna change MB, what else do
    you do? - You GO OUT AND GET ALL THE LATEST DRIVERS... Like the NEW version of
    the ATI Catalyst drivers for the !#@%Y^%^$# video card...............

    So, either the new video setup is causing it OR my monitor has experienced the
    brightness problem written of frequently in reference to the P1110 Trinitron
    monitors.......

    In EITHER case some adjusting in the "expert" area and I wound up with a
    different view... AND, low and behold, when I fired up PS and brought up the
    image - MY IMAGE NOW LOOKS LIKE THE LAST PRINT... DARK!!!!!!

    Which would be ok, EXCEPT THAT I'VE JUST SPENT 3 DAYS EDITING STUFF FOR
    PUBLICATION AND ITS ALL GONNA BE TOO DARK ON THEIR MONITORS
    WHEN THEY EVALUATE IT! I wonder if I can get away with claiming THEIR
    monitors aren't calibrated correctly?

    I HAVE to be the dumbest human that ever lived!

    I swear I'm gonna go buy a Sony Artisan monitor!

    Or a Color Spyder 2?

    BTW: I had previously calibrated this monitor with a borrowed Gretag McBeth
    unit that I got from a client... I guess I"m gonna have to get my own
    calibrator...
     
    dperez, Jan 8, 2005
    #8
  9. Not to worry. We all have our moments.

    But I also think you'll get more bettah info in comp.periphs.printers,
    esp. if you eschew the use of capitals....

    Good luck.
     
    John McWilliams, Jan 8, 2005
    #9
  10. dperez

    Ben Kaufman Guest


    The only thing I don't recall you mentioning is double checking your adobe PS CS
    setup.

    Ben
     
    Ben Kaufman, Jan 8, 2005
    #10
  11. dperez

    dperez Guest

    John, I would have put the not in the printers group but I didn't ever think it
    was an actual printer problem... Considering the changes I'd made were all on
    the computer end I figured it HAD to be some kind of interaction...

    And although I'd rarely put a note in that was all capitals I like to use some
    capitalized words to provide emphasis...
    Actually I DID check my setup... The problem is when the monitor totally goes
    overbright, its really hard to identify the black and white points. Adobe Gamma
    relies on you to pick out a black square within a black square... Which looked
    FINE until I saw the same image on another screen and realized my overall
    brightness was just way off...

    BTW: I also posted the original problem in the graphics photoshop group but I
    must ask the questions wrong for those folks 'cause I've NEVER got any response
    there to anything I've asked. I get a much better response here even though
    y'all are busy with cameras as well as photoshop and everything else...
     
    dperez, Jan 9, 2005
    #11
  12. dperez

    jpmcw Guest

    Good to see you found the answer in your monitor's calibration, or lack
    thereof.....it's very easy to get used to monitors which are off- even
    way off, as our eyes -brains, really- compensate for the colors and
    luminance we know should be there...
     
    jpmcw, Jan 9, 2005
    #12
  13. dperez

    Ben Kaufman Guest


    Just curious, did you try reprinting a previously worked photo (before this
    problem occurred) "as is?"

    Ben
     
    Ben Kaufman, Jan 11, 2005
    #13
  14. dperez

    dperez Guest

    I think the problem is even more bizarre than originally thought... OR,
    something else has changed...

    Ben, I did reprint a photo that I'd previously printed and I BELIEVE it still
    looked the same. But, it looked drastically different than it did on the
    monitor. Which, once I was looking at it on the monitor was the image I
    believed was correct. So, looking at this much "darker" print, I was convinced
    the print was wrong...

    And, since I had to get some new work done for a salon I started doing the new
    images. Which, of course printed HUGELY dark compared to what I was seeing on
    the screen...

    Now, to make things more interesting, I've been recalibrating again - in my
    crude fashion since I don't have a puck based calibrator.

    Adobe gamma - disaster. No matter what I do, when setting brightness and
    contrast in adobe gamma the monitor is WAY too bright. I can get the gamma of
    the individual colors right, but the interaction with brightness and contrast
    (which are actually setting black point and brightness respectively) is way off.
    Now that I know where the monitor setting has to be to look right I can ignore
    it, but it LOOKS really wrong in Adobe Gamma.

    For example, my monitor brightness is 0 - 100 with three values in each of the
    numeric values - so there are actually 300 brightness values. When printing,
    the brightness that matches the print brightness is the middle value of 11. In
    adobe gamma, the brightness setting looks right at right around 42. A huge
    difference.

    I finally tried using QuickGamma and the charts from the Norman Koren website.
    The initial value when set from Adobe Gamma had the gamma at approximately 1.9,
    which is way too bright. In quickgamma I finally was able to recalibrate and
    with paying close attention I found that it matched the brightness almost
    exactly to what I found I was setting the monitor at - 11. What I wound up with
    was a red gamma of 2.32, green 2.35, and blue of 2.22. Once all this fiddling
    was done I THINK things are finally working correctly...

    In Photoshop, on a 2.2 gray scale I can see the difference between 95% and 100%
    (black) and the 0% and 5% quite clearly. And the chart with 1% changes between
    0 and 15%, and 85 and 100% appear to move smoothly and the shades are visible...

    AND it looks the same way when I print it...

    I'm not sure what the moral in all this is, but if you're not getting good
    matches between your monitor and printer you might want to try something like
    QuickGamma rather than relying exclusively on Adobe Gamma.
     
    dperez, Jan 11, 2005
    #14
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