Duff computer

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Bill, Sep 4, 2009.

  1. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Our Compaq computer has gone dead. I thought in for a penny in for a pound,
    (or even in for a cent, in for a dollar) and fitted a new power supply.
    This hasn't cured it. The fans work, the lights on the front work, it
    switches on and off, the CD drawers open. There is nothing on the monitor
    at all, not even the usual bios messages. I pulled the memory strips in
    case they were dragging things down but made no difference. I don't think
    there is much more I can do. We are now wondering whether to put it in for
    repair (it is getting on for 3 years old) or to get a new one.

    That's life!
     
    Bill, Sep 4, 2009
    #1
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  2. Bill

    Mike Easter Guest

    That's not much of a troubleshooting description.
    Why did you do that?
    Shall we assume the new PS is good? Should we assume the old PS was
    also good? How shall we interpret your experiment of buying and
    installing a new PS?
    Was that power function also seen before the new PS or has something
    changed or what?
    What happens when using a known good monitor? Does this compaq have a
    video card or integrated mobo video?
    Do you have swappable resources at home so that you can substitute good
    parts, for example a known good monitor, for suspect parts, or do you
    have to buy another part such as you did the PS just to try it and see?

    If your plan is to buy new parts as you did the PS as your method of
    troubleshooting the problem, this is going to be a very expensive
    process.
     
    Mike Easter, Sep 4, 2009
    #2
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  3. Bill

    Bill Guest


    Unfortunately the supplier is far worse than Walmart, it came from PC World!
    Their level of expertise is probably on a par with Walmart
     
    Bill, Sep 4, 2009
    #3
  4. Bill

    why? Guest

    On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:35:56 +0100, Bill wrote:

    So it's not the one Homer had on the Simpsons?
    Model doesn't matter.
    Why? Was it totally no functional no fans/lights?
    A generic PSU, not a Compaq one?
    No beeps?
    Most of that time that would cause a boot failure anyway.
    You could unplug hardisk, cd any additional cards / devices, and try
    booting just in case something else is faulty.

    However with a Compaq it's likely a new motherboard anyway.

    A spare video card is usually handy in these cases, just in case.
    Doesn't sound worth it.

    Me
     
    why?, Sep 4, 2009
    #4
  5. Bill <> pinched out a steaming pile
    Do ye have a craigslist in yer country? Lots of cheap parts on
    craigslist.


    --

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    §ñühw¤£f, Sep 4, 2009
    #5
  6. Bill

    Whiskers Guest

    Start at the beginning. Is the monitor connected to the computer? Is the
    monitor connected to the mains? Is the monitor switched on? Have you
    tried using a different monitor with that computer, or a different
    known-to-be-working computer with that monitor?
     
    Whiskers, Sep 4, 2009
    #6
  7. Bill

    olfart Guest


    that would be too easy
     
    olfart, Sep 4, 2009
    #7
  8. Bill

    chuckcar Guest

    How many watts was the original and the replacement?
    First: does the power light on the monitor change from orange to green? If
    so have you tried *that* monitor on another computer to make sure it
    works? Have you tried removing *all* internal cards removing all RAM,
    everything from the USB ports etc and unplugging all drives except the
    hard drive (1) from the power plugs. Leave them connected to the ribbon
    cables. It's too much to try to sort *that* out. This should result in the
    monitor light going from amber to green and a series of beeps. You
    probably need to have *powered* speakers hooked up to hear it.
     
    chuckcar, Sep 5, 2009
    #8
  9. Bill

    chuckcar Guest

    Reasonable first step. Power supplies on consumer computer are notoriously
    unreliable and underpowered.
     
    chuckcar, Sep 5, 2009
    #9
  10. Bill

    Mike Easter Guest

    The problem is that if the OP had no 'spare' PS lying around, which it
    sounds like he didn't, then he has invested some dollars and some labor
    for a hardware replacement experiment which was not justified by the
    (lack of) troubleshooting. That is, my question 'Why?' means what
    troubleshooting led to his conclusion that he should buy a PS and R&R
    the old one?

    If you were an common enduser with no computer pieces and parts around
    the house and you had a computer with a dead mobo and a good PS, would
    you go out and buy a PS and remove and replace the GOOD PS with another
    good PS as an experiment to see if you bad mobo would come back to life?
     
    Mike Easter, Sep 5, 2009
    #10
  11. Bill

    Tony Guest

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    Newsgroups:
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    email
    --
    The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

    Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

    Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
    manners

    Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

    Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

    El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

    Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

    Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
    the realm of understandability

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
     
    Tony, Sep 5, 2009
    #11
  12. Bill

    chuckcar Guest

    Ok, so it's a guess and worst case scenario is that you have a $120
    computer case lying around not being used. But having dealt directly with
    such hardware for quite some time, it's certainly a reasonable stab in the
    dark IMHO. Not based on any absolute facts, but certainly a good guess.
     
    chuckcar, Sep 5, 2009
    #12
  13. Bill

    Mike Easter Guest

    There seems to be a popular b0rken computer religion running around that
    when the whole thing is down that the first troubleshooting step you
    should do is replace the PS.

    In the first place, that isn't a trivial strategy. In the second place,
    it lacks specificity.

    Therefore the concept...
    .... is a bad concept on the face of it.

    The reasonable first step is to have a troubleshooting strategy, not to
    replace the PS first and then start wondering what is wrong.
     
    Mike Easter, Sep 5, 2009
    #13
  14. Bill

    chuckcar Guest

    But it *is* specific: There is no boot, the monitor doesn't come on
    (assuming the monitor is connected correctly and is working - but you have
    to start *somewhere*). There are no POST beeps - at least there are none
    coming from a machine that *may* or may not even *have* an internal
    speaker. So, you get POST obviously starting due to the drive activity, so
    the motherboard is good as far as that goes, the POST is running. The CPU
    is good therefore. The only other things are RAM, Video and power for the
    both. No post code, so monitor, video card or power supply. 33% chance of
    being right on first try. Not too shabby.
    If you were dealing with a random computer of *any* cost coming from *any*
    manufacture including such as Sun, I would agree with you. However that is
    *not* the case here. We're dealing with a name brand consumer computer.
    Computers which have been designed stripped down to save manufacturing
    costs because you can't sell 10 million $2,500 computers in a year in the
    US. That means it has it's own version of M$ software marketedly different
    from the retail XP etc. It also means you have cheaper peripheral devices
    on the main board and in the slots etc. It also means the power output of
    the main power supply is minimal. So much so that a power drain is a
    commonly done thing on such computers just so they'll start. Out of ~30
    calls a day five days a week, I'd have to do it at *least* once every two
    weeks. Nothing else works aside from replacing the power supply with a
    decent one.

    Not meaning to sound preachy or trollish here, understand. Just making the
    point without any malice.
     
    chuckcar, Sep 5, 2009
    #14
  15. Bill

    Mike Easter Guest

    The OP started with describing what happens after he replaced the PS.
    That's what happens after he replaced the PS. $deity only knows what
    didn't happen before he replace the PS. I'm assuming for simplicity's
    sake that the description he gave corresponded to both before and after
    PS replacement.
    I think the proper troubleshooting approach can greatly increase or
    decrease the likelihood of it being (or the possibility of it not being)
    the PS before replacing it. I don't agree with the people who believe
    that you can completely rule in or rule out the PS by voltage testing
    under various troubleshooting maneuvers, but I think some of that
    approach has value.

    If the testing indicates that it (probably) isn't the PS but (probably)
    something else, then replacing the PS first isn't the best thing to do.

    Sometimes the strategy of replacing the PS with a known good one in an
    uncertain situation has enough value in differentiating problems to make
    it worth doing.
    I understand the concept that you are elaborating.
     
    Mike Easter, Sep 5, 2009
    #15
  16. Bill

    Pennywise Guest

    That's the key, what happened before he replaced the P.S.

    If he got the same results before and after the replacement - the very
    first thing to would of been to exchange the monitor with one known to
    work, next step would be trying a "cheap video card" {Rôgêr}.
     
    Pennywise, Sep 5, 2009
    #16
  17. Bill

    Pennywise Guest

    You suggested pulling all the cards, yet one needs an audio card for
    the "*powered* speakers". This requires an OS to be operating.

    The Bios speaker is 4 pins on the board and three wires to the
    !unpowered! speaker - or chances are (being it's three years old) it's
    part of the mother board (circular, about an inch in height with a
    hole in the middle.)

    Tony was right about you and your pulling out every card out when
    there is a problem - how do you know it isn't an all in one board?

    Also of course your going to hear a series of beeps, the memory has
    been removed. One should suggest listening for any beeps with
    everything intact, then using the beep codes to work with.
     
    Pennywise, Sep 5, 2009
    #17
  18. Bill

    Tony Guest

    His usual reply is to take out everything except the power supply and one stick
    of ram. This time he even says to take out *all* of the ram. I think Chuck is
    confusing even himself this time.

    --
    The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

    Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

    Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
    manners

    Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

    Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

    El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

    Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

    Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
    the realm of understandability

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
     
    Tony, Sep 5, 2009
    #18
  19. Bill

    chuckcar Guest

    wrote in

    Only if there's not an internal one.
    Three pins on both sides. Otherwise there wouldn't be only one way to
    connect it properly.
    So you're saying that there's one in any case, so no problem with the POST
    beeps then. Contradicting yourself in two sequential paragraphs.
    Interesting.
    Tony's just an idiot troll. The fact that you don't realize that doesn't
    say a lot for you either.

    How do *you* know that they're aren't any boards in the computer?
    First step is to eliminate anything you can to minimze both power
    use and something faulty stopping the computer from starting normally.
    For this to happen you have to get either a BIOS screen or a post beep.
    Neither is happening now.
    But you never *get* them now. So clearly *something* must be removed. And
    before you can diagnose, you *need* to know you are getting beep codes
    when relevant. So you put the computer in a state where you *know* it will
    produce them first.
     
    chuckcar, Sep 6, 2009
    #19
  20. Bill

    Pennywise Guest

    Your a clueless fool, and I won't respond to your gluttony of B.S.
    Ok two responses:
    chances are (being it's three years old) it's

    Me
    I said no such thing.

    Your clueless remark at the end
    If you don't here One (1), you have a problem, you don't need to put
    the computer in any state.
     
    Pennywise, Sep 6, 2009
    #20
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