Dpreview selector: AA batteries?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bill Tuthill, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. Bill Tuthill

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    Has anybody figured out how to tell Dpreview.com's camera selector
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
    to show only cameras powered by AA batteries, not proprietary LiON?

    If not, is there another good camera selector somewhere?
     
    Bill Tuthill, Aug 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. Bill Tuthill

    stuuder Guest

    stuuder, Aug 16, 2007
    #2
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  3. Bill Tuthill

    SMS Guest

    "http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php" is much better than
    the dpreview database engine.

    It's especially useful now that they include "Optical/Electronic
    Viewfinder" as a check-off item. Their engine really helps you
    eliminate all the unacceptable cameras very quickly.

    Check off just the basic no-compromise requirements:

    -AF-assist lamp
    -Image stabilizer
    -Optical/electronic viewfinder
    -Wide Angle Lens

    You're left with two AA powered choices, and eleven Li-Ion choices.
     
    SMS, Aug 16, 2007
    #3
  4. Bill Tuthill

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    Thanks!

    Interesting that you pick "Image stabilizer" but not "RAW/TIFF mode"
    as a must-have.

    My standards are lower -- AA battery, wide angle, and viewfinder.
    The Fuji S8000fd is my only choice, given I don't want xD cards.
    Looks like an update of the S6000fd, which has been reviewed.
     
    Bill Tuthill, Aug 16, 2007
    #4
  5. Bill Tuthill

    SMS Guest

    Yeah, well on an a non-SLR RAW/TIFF is becoming increasingly rare. If
    you specify RAW/TIFF you lose a lot of potential cameras.
    Well if the Olympus SP-550 Ultra Zoom were significantly better than the
    S8000FD xd cards might be an acceptable negative.
     
    SMS, Aug 17, 2007
    #5
  6. Bill Tuthill

    rudijock Guest

    Its been my finding that dedicated Li-ion batteries last many times
    longer than 2500ma rechargeable Nimh. A camera with a choice would be
    good for "an emergency" but I would still rather take an extra
    dedicated battery along for the ride any day. Especially since e-bay
    has many aftermarket replacements for less than $10.
     
    rudijock, Aug 17, 2007
    #6
  7. Bill Tuthill

    King Sardon Guest

    And how good are those aftermarket replacement batteries?

    KS
     
    King Sardon, Aug 17, 2007
    #7
  8. Bill Tuthill

    SMS Guest

    There's still a few people that don't understand the tremendous
    advantages of Li-Ion batteries. Usually the reason they want NiMH
    batteries is because they've had their batteries go dead so many times
    that they think they need to be able to have an "emergency" back-up of
    AA alkaline batteries.
    Not just eBay, there are reputable e-tailers with similar prices.

    OTOH, the original poster want a camera that takes AA batteries, and
    whether this desire is based on real or imaginary reasons is not relevant,

    Steve
    http://batterydata.com
     
    SMS, Aug 17, 2007
    #8
  9. Bill Tuthill

    Ron Hunter Guest

    There are several valid reasons to prefer the AA batteries. Those who
    travel away from urban areas, and often spend days away from power
    sources can't depend on lithium-ion batteries to get the job done. One
    of the major shortcomings of that battery technology is a rather sharp
    power drop off rate at the end of the charge life. When they are dead,
    they are rather suddenly dead. Yes, you can carry a spare lithium-ion
    battery, but they are much more expensive than a set of AA alkalines
    bought at any bait shop.
     
    Ron Hunter, Aug 17, 2007
    #9
  10. Bill Tuthill

    JohnR66 Guest

    I don't like Li-ion because they start loosing capacity after a couple years
    and are expensive to replace. I tried an after market one from B&H for $35
    It's capacity was less than the OEM was and after a year it would only get
    me 20 shots per charge. I was on a business trip one time and had spare time
    to visit a zoo. Both batteries ran out before I was finished. It was that
    time I decided to sell the camera and get one that uses AA's. That was 2004
    and I have never looked back.

    The Li-ion in my dSLR has been better, however, after 3 years it only holds
    half the charge and seems weaker every time I use it.

    With Eneloop Ni-Mh technology around now, I have evern more reason not to
    want Li-ion.
    John
     
    JohnR66, Aug 17, 2007
    #10
  11. Bill Tuthill

    SMS Guest

    Non-urban areas also have power sources. It's only out in the wilderness
    that they have to worry about, and this assumes that they're spending
    days away from AC or DC (vehicle power) yet they are able to buy AA
    batteries at a store? If you're out backpacking or cycling, you want to
    carry the lightest, densest power source, which is not AA.
    Slightly more expensive, not much more expensive. Four AA alkalines
    bought at 7-11 or a bait shop will probably cost $8-10. A spare Li-Ion
    pack will cost $10-20, and of course the Li-Ion pack is re-usable. Now
    if the bait shop sold four Eneloop batteries for $10 it'd be a different
    story. Don't compare the Costco price for AA batteries with what the
    camera manufacturer charges for a replacement Li-Ion or Li-Po pack.

    Steve
    "http://batterydata.com"
     
    SMS, Aug 17, 2007
    #11
  12. Bill Tuthill

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    My experience has been that after a couple years, the LiOn batteries
    hold a charge for only a few pictures, and replacement LiOn batteries
    cost a lotta money and don't work as well as the original did when new.

    Whereas the new RayOvac Hybrid batteries are the bee's knees.
     
    Bill Tuthill, Aug 17, 2007
    #12
  13. Bill Tuthill

    Paul Allen Guest

    You know what, Steve? Most of us don't care that much. NiMH
    batteries work fine, and so do Li-ion batteries. Each has
    advantages and disadvantages. I have cameras that use each type,
    and battery technology was a factor in neither purchase. Your
    endless one-sided Li-ion evangelism is tiresome.
    You don't score debating points by discounting one of the legitimate
    advantages of the AA format. You especially don't score points by
    implying that people who recognize that advantage are somehow
    misguided.

    You could be free of me forever if you'd just tell the truth about
    batteries.

    Paul Allen
     
    Paul Allen, Aug 17, 2007
    #13
  14. Bill Tuthill

    SMS Guest

    After three years the Li-Ion packs begin to lose capacity pretty rapidly.

    But NiMH batteries don't last forever either. The NiMH batteries are
    theoretically good for about five years, but their lower number of
    charge cycles, and the frequent early failure due to an improper
    charging regimen, don't make them any better in practice.

    I've been using after-market Li-Ion packs for years. They are higher
    capacity than the OEM packs, and last just as long. Just don't buy the
    el-cheapo ones from eBay, go to a reliable vendor, or buy name-brand
    after-market packs from Duracell or Lenmar.

    Steve
    "http://batterydata.com"
    Earth's Independent Source for Unbiased Digital Camera Battery Information
     
    SMS, Aug 17, 2007
    #14
  15. Bill Tuthill

    ASAAR Guest

    Yet another of your ridiculous comparisons intended to support
    your bias. A photographer either is prepared ahead of time with a
    spare set of batteries or not. If prepared, then there won't be any
    $8-$10 expenditure for 4 AA alkalines. They can be purchased ahead
    of time for a bit less than $1 for the set of four. If the
    photographer is unprepared and has to purchase something, at least
    the alkaline batteries will be an option. If an emergency Li-Ion
    battery pack is needed, the photographer will be out of luck. And
    in the unlikely event that the bait shop charges up to $10 for that
    pack of 4 AA alkalines, just cross the street and buy them at the
    local Rite-Aid or CVS for 1/2 the price or less.

    If fair comparisons are desired, you should heed your own advice.
     
    ASAAR, Aug 17, 2007
    #15
  16. Bill Tuthill

    SMS Guest

    Yes, that's why I answered the original poster's question without
    comment on the trade-offs. It's only when others started up with the
    misinformation campaign that I thought it worthwhile to point out the
    actual facts regarding the trade-offs.
     
    SMS, Aug 17, 2007
    #16
  17. Bill Tuthill

    ASAAR Guest

    True for some batteries. My genuine Nokia Li-Ion battery packs
    lost capacity very rapidly after 1 1/2 years.

    Endlessly repeating a lie doesn't make it fact. Most battery
    manufacturers claim 1,000 charge cycles for NiMH batteries, and
    you're no doubt aware of this. You've acknowledged it for Eneloop
    batteries already. What claim do Li-Ion manufacturers make? You've
    never mentioned this. But it's still a bogus point whether no
    matter what type of battery you're talking about, because unless
    used commercially, where the battery needs to be fully charged
    daily, no battery will reach 1,000 charge cycles before needing to
    be replaced. Despite your bogus logic, by the time most
    photographers will need to replace their Li-Ion batteries, they'll
    have had the equivalent of no more than several dozen full charges.

    aka Steve, Battery Expert From Another Planet.
     
    ASAAR, Aug 17, 2007
    #17
  18. So, if a LiIon battery reaches its theoretical life end at three years and if
    NiMH don't reach their theoretical life end until five years and the latter
    can be charged 1000 times [again, in theory], then how is it that we are seeing
    a reduced number of charge cycles in NiMH batteries? It seems that a full
    discharge/charge cycle daily should be sufficient for anybody [or they really
    should simply have more batteries, eh?] and it appears that NiMH stands up to
    this task as well as LiIon does. So, if somebody has a need to charge their
    batteries at a rate of once per day or less, then the number of charge cycles
    should not even be an issue.

    Granted, there are a few cases where NiMH batteries are rated at 500 charges,
    but having said that, even if the LiIon battery holds up to that kind of use
    for three full years [I argue a heavily used LiIon cell will expire much
    sooner than three years ... just look at laptop usage and how those batteries
    last when used heavily], they are still more than twice the price of the same
    energy supply in NiMH format. In summary, charge cycles are just not an issue
    at all for the choice of battery to use with a heavy duty load cycle. Very
    light load cycles actually favor NiMH with the advent of low self-discharge
    batteries as they are MUCH cheaper than LiIon batteries and the LiIon battery
    will lose capacity whether used or not.

    BTW ... there is little reason that NiMH batteries won't last more than five
    years with good care [and light use], but yes, they will wear out ... NiCd is
    or lead acid is the way to go for long term use.
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Aug 17, 2007
    #18
  19. Bill Tuthill

    SMS Guest

    The reason for the fewer charge cycles prior to the NiMH going bad is
    due to an improper charging regimen. Let's face it, how many people
    follow the recommended charging regimen of priming the batteries, doing
    periodic full discharges, not storing them discharged, and using a
    proper charger with individual charging circuits that is somewhere in
    the range of proper rates (being neither too fast or too slow). It's no
    big deal because the batteries are relatively cheap to replace, but it
    means that rather than 300-500 cycles you may get only 150-250. I don't
    think anyone claims that 1000 cycles is typical.

    Steve
    "http://batterydata.com/"
     
    SMS, Aug 18, 2007
    #19
  20. Bill Tuthill

    ASAAR Guest

    No, but 300-500 cycles is far from what most manufacturers claim
    is the maximum number of charges to expect from NiMH batteries.
    Most claim 1,000 cycles. I think that one (RayOVac) specifies 500.
    I *highly* doubt that as much as 1% of the typical photographers
    ever get anywhere near 150 to 250 charge cycles from Li-Ion
    batteries, so if anyone gets that many from NiMH batteries, that's
    probably more than they'd have gotten from Li-Ion batteries. Most
    of them will get far less than 100 charges from their Li-Ion
    batteries. You're only pulling numbers out of thin air to support
    your battery bias, but then what else is new?
     
    ASAAR, Aug 18, 2007
    #20
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