Downloading movies -- Should I be grateful or pissed off?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Nunsploitation Webmaster, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. It's usually cool to check the web site stats and see that a new site has
    linked to you or that someone has posted your link in a discussion forum.

    When I created Nunsploitation.Net I wanted it to be *the* place people went
    to whenever the topic of nunsploitation came up.

    Today, I followed a new link in a discussion forum, but I was saddened to see
    it was a discussion forum for one of those peer-to-peer downloading systems.
    Instead of *buying* nunsploitation movies and supporting film makers, movie
    vendors and *ahem* webmasters, these people were stealing the movies and
    sharing them among themselves for free.

    I suppose I should be grateful that the site and the genre is getting some
    exposure and enjoyment, but at the same time I'm upset to see that an obscure
    genre that needs support in order to survive getting shafted by people who
    claim to be fans.

    Unless nunsploitation movies, or any kind of movies, make money they will
    disappear. The same goes for sites like Nunsploitation.Net that support them.

    I don't run Nunsploitation.Net for profit, but I would like to see the site
    get enough regular traffic and enough support through affiliate sales (the
    site brings in a 10% commission for every movie sale made through one of its
    web links) to support itself.

    It costs about $60 a year to operate (because of the adult material, I pay a
    little more, plus I own two domain names .net and .com). That's not asking a
    whole lot. If I can get that much money to come in, then I'll know that if
    I'm not in a position to support the site, I can rest assured that it will
    support itself.

    I can possibly understand downloading movies that are just impossible to
    find. But in researching the site, I've found that if you look hard enough
    you can find darn near anything. I was very excited to find sites that sold
    Ken Russell's The Devils and Kawalerowicz's Mother Joan of the Angels -- to
    of the more important and more obscure films in nunsploitation, IMHO.

    Some films are expensive, but many are easily affordable on any budget. The
    sites that sponsor Nunsploitation.Net have nunsploitation movies for as low
    as $5 or $7.

    You can rationalize peer-to-peer downloading all you want, but theft is
    theft. It hurts everyone including the thief. If I have to close
    Nunsploitation.Net for financial reasons, you can bet I'll be thinking about
    the sales that were lost to peer-to-peer downloads.
     
    Nunsploitation Webmaster, Feb 9, 2004
    #1
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  2. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    sardu Guest

    you sick bastard. >:eek:Þ
     
    sardu, Feb 9, 2004
    #2
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  3. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    Jay G Guest

    The forum is on your site, so you can make the rules. Just make it
    a rule that members can't discuss or post links to bootlegs. Many
    of the movie-related web forums I go to have such rules, and it
    doesn't seem to affect their traffic too negatively.

    -Jay
     
    Jay G, Feb 9, 2004
    #3
  4. No, you misunderstand.

    Someone in a bit-torrent bootleg video forum posted a link to my site.

    There is no discussion forum on Nunsploitation.Net. I try to avoid things
    like that. IMO, that's what Usenet is for.

    On one hand, I'm grateful that people mention the site whenever the topic of
    nunsploitation comes up and that people actually *use* the database, on the
    other hand, I get kind of upset that they're not supporting the genre and are
    bootlegging the movies instead of buying them.

    The Nunsploitation movies I saw being pirated are commercially available. I
    have links to vendors on my site. So it's not like they're bootlegging
    out-of-print, banned, or impossible-to-find material.
     
    Nunsploitation Webmaster, Feb 9, 2004
    #4
  5. How many nunsploitation films are there worth watching/discussing. What a
    wanky sub-genre. It's neither fish nor foul.
     
    The White Lady, Feb 9, 2004
    #5
  6. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    Mark Guest

    The problem with your argument is that you assume that everyone who
    downloads a movie would otherwise buy it. In reality, most people who
    are happy with a crappy low-res, low-quality downloaded version
    (particularly one shot from a movie theater screen with a camcorder)
    would never pay money for a DVD, while some people will watch the
    crappy low-res version of a movie they'd never seen before and buy the
    DVD.

    Calling people who download movies 'thieves' is like calling people
    who tape music off the radio 'thieves', or people who rent a movie
    from the video store and show it to a dozen of their mates 'thieves':
    almost no-one in the world other than the IP Barons thinks twice about
    doing any of those things.

    It's also worth remembering that very little of the money from any of
    the movies sold actually goes to the movie-makers unless they're
    selling direct: almost all the money will go to distributors instead,
    who are notorious for ripping off independents. If anyone should be
    called 'thieves' it's the crooked distributors who plague the movie
    world.

    Mark
     
    Mark, Feb 9, 2004
    #6
  7. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    Brian Guest

    It's also bad for film companies and directors who want their movie
    shown in high quality. I know someone who downloaded a poor quality
    version of Lord of the rings when it first was released and said he
    did not like the movie and could not understand it was so popular. Had
    he watched it at the movie theater or on a DVD he might have had been
    more impressed with the movie. His poor quality copy lost the impact,
    beautiful scenery and great sound that the movie offered.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, Feb 9, 2004
    #7
  8. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    DarkMatter Guest

    Some people are too stupid to observe such aspects of a film, just
    as some idiots are too stupid to post properly in Usenet, like YOU,
    you top posting usenet stoopid. Do a little reading about Usenet
    posting protocols BEFORE you stomp around in a forum.
     
    DarkMatter, Feb 9, 2004
    #8
  9. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    SpaceGirl Guest

    It's okay to top post... there are no set in stone rules you know. The main
    graphics usenet forum I post on (which is made out of mostly internet / new
    media professional) top posting is the norm. So live with it :p
     
    SpaceGirl, Feb 9, 2004
    #9
  10. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    Richard C. Guest

    Still hanging on to those buggy whips, Dark?

    ======================
    : On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:31:46 +1300, Brian <> Gave
    : us:
    :
    : >It's also bad for film companies and directors who want their movie
    : >shown in high quality. I know someone who downloaded a poor quality
    : >version of Lord of the rings when it first was released and said he
    : >did not like the movie and could not understand it was so popular. Had
    : >he watched it at the movie theater or on a DVD he might have had been
    : >more impressed with the movie. His poor quality copy lost the impact,
    : >beautiful scenery and great sound that the movie offered.
    : >
    : >Regards Brian
    :
    : Some people are too stupid to observe such aspects of a film, just
    : as some idiots are too stupid to post properly in Usenet, like YOU,
    : you top posting usenet stoopid. Do a little reading about Usenet
    : posting protocols BEFORE you stomp around in a forum.
     
    Richard C., Feb 9, 2004
    #10
  11. Then they should go without just like you do with everything you can't afford
    or are unwilling to pay for.

    If you are happy with an old pair of jeans, does that give you the right to
    steal a pair of designer jeans?

    If you are satisfied with a cheeseburger for lunch, does that give you the
    right to sneak into the back kitchen and steal a steak?

    Finally, as I pointed out before, these movies are not *all* expensive. Some
    are sold for as little as $5. I really don't see the justification in
    downloading an authorized copy them without paying for them.
    No, this is completely different.

    The Home Recording Act reimburses studios and artist for music recorded off
    the radio. A portion of the money made from blank audio tapes is used as
    compensation. It'd be nice if they did this with recordable audio CDs too.
    Well, that much I'll agree on. However, wrongdoing on the part of the
    distributors in no way exonorates wrongdoing on the part of the consumer. We
    are responsible for our own actions. Just because someone at the top of the
    ladder does something wrong doesn't give us the right to steal as well.

    If you are upset that not enough of the money you paid for an independent
    film went back to the film makers, you can always send a cash donation to
    that film maker as compensation that you feel is justified.

    Somehow, I don't see you doing that anytime soon. ;)
     
    Nunsploitation Webmaster, Feb 9, 2004
    #11
  12. Currently, there are about 100 titles in the movie database at
    http://www.nunsploitation.net

    Out of those 100, about half are available for sale through links on the
    site. About three quarters have at least one review. (These are usually
    fairly long reviews, at least a few paragraphs if not more. These are not the
    lame two-sentence reviews by anonymous customers like the ones at Amazon and
    similar sites.)

    That's just the tip of the iceburg. We are constantly researching and adding
    more titles.

    Examples of nunsploitation in film can be found as far back as 1903! Early
    examples like this can be found in the vintage erotica compilation "The Good
    Old Naughty Days" (included in the Nunsploitation.Net database).

    Although the genre peaked in the 1970s, these movies are still being made
    today. For example:

    - Ken Hall's nunsploitation horror movie "Halfway House" is scheduled for its
    world premiere at the San Francisco Film Festival this weekend.

    - Brian Yuzna (Re-Animator) is working on a new nunsploitation horror movie
    "The Nun" scheduled for release later this year.

    - "The Magdalene Sisters," released in theaters this summer grossed $4.9
    million domestically. It's scheduled for a March 24 DVD release.

    - In January, Italian mini-series "Renzo y Lucia" (based on the novel "The
    Betrothed" (I Promessi Sposi) ) topped ratings on TV, in spite of competition
    from World Cup soccer.

    - In India, the movie "Kovil," released in January, sports the age old theme
    of forbidden love when a Catholic girl's parents send her to a convent to
    prevent her from marrying a hindu boy.

    - In Korea, director Kim Gi-duk is promoting his upcoming movie "Samaria"
    with movie posters featuring his teenage star wearing nothing but a nun's
    veil.

    Nunsploitation isn't relegated to B-movies either. Stars like Bridget Bardot,
    Deborah Kerr, Mary Tyler Moore, Audrey Hepburn, Eva Grimaldi, and Victoria
    Principal have all donned the habit (and in many cases, removed it) on the
    big screen.

    How many nunsploitation films are there worth watching/discussing? You'd be
    surprised!
     
    Nunsploitation Webmaster, Feb 9, 2004
    #12
  13. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    Jay G Guest

    They do. Stand-alone CD recorders use special Audio CD-Rs that
    include a royalty in the price. Of course CD-Rs can be used for
    plain data storage as well, so the CD-Rs designed for PCs don't
    have the royalty attached.

    -Jay
     
    Jay G, Feb 9, 2004
    #13
  14. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    Mark Guest

    Again, you're introducing claims of 'theft' as an emotive and bogus
    argument that bears no resemblance to what people are doing. They're
    not stealing DVDs from a video store, they're downloading copies:
    would you argue that if I liked the look of a pair of designer jeans,
    that I couldn't make a copy for myself? If I tried to pass them on for
    sale as a real pair then obviously it would be fraud, but if I merely
    copy them then the owner of the jeans still has their copy and I have
    mine... no-one has lost anything.
    Again, you're introducing claims of 'theft' as an emotive and bogus
    argument.
    And? If I tape it and play the tape a hundred times, they've 'lost'
    the money from a hundred air plays: by your argument I've stolen that
    from them.
    So how does one register as a 'musician' and get this free money? I'm
    going to run off a couple of CDs of me humming and playing air guitar
    and claim my percentage while I sit on the beach.

    Oh, you mean it goes to the big music companies while the independents
    and artists get screwed? Why am I not surprised?

    I notice, BTW, that you didn't comment on the more pertinent example
    of one person renting a DVD and showing it to a dozen of their
    friends: how, in your world, is that not 'theft' just as much as one
    person putting up a copy of their DVD which a dozen of their friends
    then download and watch?

    Or what if I stand outside a TV store and watch the movie they're
    playing on a DVD player in the window? Is that theft in your world?
    Must I close my eyes whenever I'm passing any TV store to ensure that
    I don't accidentally steal from the IP Barons by glancing in the wrong
    direction and getting a brief glimpse of a movie on a TV?
    Again, you still need to explain what "wrongdoing" is involved in
    downloading a copy of a movie that you'd never buy? Or, indeed,
    downloading a copy of a movie that you plan to buy in order to check
    whether it's as good as people have told you it is?
    Indeed not: I usually buy them beer instead. I'm sure they'd prefer
    coke and hookers, but I can't quite afford to go to that level.

    As for the views of independents on movie downloading, only a few
    weeks ago I was at a talk by Lloyd Kaufmann from Troma who was
    extolling the benefits of peer-to-peer movie and music downloading for
    independents.

    Ah, here's one of his articles online:

    http://www.troma.com/lk2/piracy2/

    He seems to totally disagree with your attitude, even though he's the
    'victim' of 'theft' by people downloading his movies, and you're not.
    Odd that.

    Mark
     
    Mark, Feb 10, 2004
    #14
  15. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    Justin Guest

    Mark wrote on [9 Feb 2004 16:46:10 -0800]:
    Which is theft.

    Just because the item can be contained withing a bitstream does not mean
    it doesn't belong to someone.

    If you can't afford it do without. That's the way life works
    Renting and showing to a bunch of people is not theft, and is perfectly
    legal.
     
    Justin, Feb 10, 2004
    #15
  16. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    DarkMatter Guest

    No... it isn't.
    Yes there are. Just like driving a car. Your lame, lazy ass is
    expected to follow them.
    Usenet is TEXT, not graphics.

    Using that interface is your first mistake, and the client you use
    has NO bearing on whether or not you or it has any clue what is or is
    not acceptable in the forum. Have you EVER read ANYTHING about
    Usenet, ever? I'd be willing to bet that you haven't.
    You're an idiot. Usenet is TEXT ONLY, and chronologically posted
    for anybody with half a brain, or that isn't as lazy as a 500Lb Lazy
    Lard Ass.
    Learn about the forum in which you intrude, and learn to comply with
    their protocols BEFORE you go 'round claiming falsely that everything
    has magically changed, you pathetic, retarded twit! YOU learn, and
    comply, and YOU live with it, twit! Don't you want to comply, like
    all the rest of your oh so ordered life? Got clue?
     
    DarkMatter, Feb 10, 2004
    #16
  17. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    DarkMatter Guest

    You forgot Whoopi Goldberg.
     
    DarkMatter, Feb 10, 2004
    #17
  18. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    DarkMatter Guest

    Duh... yer an idiot. I have been here long enough to know that you
    are the interloper. Your claim of "new" posting "styles" is as lame
    as it was ten years ago when the idiots that did it then did it.
     
    DarkMatter, Feb 11, 2004
    #18
  19. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    DarkMatter Guest

    Idiot! Learn to read headers. It has been posted to 4 groups.

    More proof of the OP's stupidity.
     
    DarkMatter, Feb 11, 2004
    #19
  20. Nunsploitation Webmaster

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Who said it's new? I've been posting whichever way suits the group I read
    the message in since I was a kiddy. That's 10+ years at least. My daddy was
    one of the founders of the Net in UK. Frankly your opinions doesn't mean
    shit to me :)
     
    SpaceGirl, Feb 11, 2004
    #20
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