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Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Frank Williams, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    Fine. Is that supposed to make any difference?

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 24, 2012
    #21
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  2. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    No. The ones who tell the police what to do. The police are also followers.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 24, 2012
    #22
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  3. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

     
    Ted, Apr 24, 2012
    #23
  4. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

    Could this be described as "fascism"?
     
    Ted, Apr 24, 2012
    #24
  5. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

    The sort that's on the way to the works, I think.
     
    Ted, Apr 24, 2012
    #25
  6. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    The evidence is against it. Election are entertainment for the masses.
    Nothing more, nothing less.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 24, 2012
    #26
  7. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    Or communism, or democracy, or dictatorship, or plutocracy, or monarchy,
    or republicanism. The end result of all these systems is 'rulers' and
    'ruled'.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2012
    #27
  8. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    Yeah right. What significant changes to the country have you personally
    caused, by yourself, by your own efforts?
    The one that laughs at both sorts.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2012
    #28
  9. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    We are all on that trip.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2012
    #29
  10. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    Speak for yourself ... if that's possible.
     
    Donchano, Apr 25, 2012
    #30
  11. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

    Until there's a revolution. You still end up with rulers and ruled,
    but a different lot. Plus, with a revolution, a lot of trouble.

    Elections are better; fewer people killed.
     
    Ted, Apr 25, 2012
    #31
  12. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

    Some trips are shorter than others.
     
    Ted, Apr 25, 2012
    #32
  13. You don't honestly think they would let us vote if it made any difference, do
    you?
     
    Liberty Pantry-Rhymer, Apr 25, 2012
    #33
  14. I admire your faith in the electoral system.
     
    Liberty Pantry-Rhymer, Apr 25, 2012
    #34
  15. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

    Honestly? No...

    But we need to keep trying. Things don't always go to plan, even if
    you're a "Leader". We might get lucky.
     
    Ted, Apr 25, 2012
    #35
  16. Frank Williams

    Ted Guest

    What else do we have?
     
    Ted, Apr 25, 2012
    #36
  17. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    OK. Here are a few that come to mind:

    In California:

    1. Going back to the days I lived in California, I organized the team,
    tables, places and times that generated over 5,000 signatures on a
    petition to oppose a proposal to put in an offshore causeway from
    Santa Monica, CA to Oxnard, CA. Long story, but after getting the
    combined petitions with over 50,000 signatures, the State turned down
    the causeway proposal despite it being supported by the City of Santa
    Monica, the council, surrounding cities, influential newspapers, oil
    companies and their lobbyists:

    http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_...09_29_03_Dreaming_Big_The_Road_in_the_Sea.htm

    In New Zealand:

    1. Part of the team whose legal challenge led to a change in the
    regulations that governed weekend trading so that businesses like ours
    could trade on full days over weekends . Before that our business was
    restricted to being open a half-day on Saturday and not at all on
    Sundays. In turn, that victory set the legal precedent so that now
    every business can trade all day on weekends if they choose.

    2. Stopping the highrise commercial development of Onetangi Beach on
    Waiheke Island and a change in the district plan that would see all
    the beachfront re-zoned commercial. The principles I was instrumental
    in establishing with Auckland City Council have been part of the
    district planning strategy ever since.

    3. Stopping the council from allowing a rose garden along The Strand
    on Onetangi Beach to be turned into a tennis court for a private club.
    The land had been gifted to the "people of Waiheke" as a rose garden
    "to be enjoyed by everyone." Digging it up and using it for a private
    tennis court would have betrayed the benefactor's wishes and those of
    his descendants (who opposed the plan).

    4. Mounting a legal challenge in the form of a ratepayers' petition to
    stop the (then) Waiheke County Council from taking out a huge loan
    they weren't authorised to borrow without a poll of ratepayers. Can't
    remember the exact number, but IIRC we were required to get the
    signature of at least 60% of registered ratepayers and we got more
    than that. As a result the loan application had to be withdrawn, the
    council firmly admonished by the local government minister and the
    local government act tightened up.

    5. Led the ratepayer initiative to replace "pro-commercial development
    at any cost" councillors with "pro-sustainable growth" councillors on
    the (then) Waiheke County Council.

    6. Led the ratepayer campaign to get rid of council bureaucrats who
    were a bit to chummy with commercial interests, such as developers
    and contractors. The county manager was the first to go.

    7. Helping to stop the commercial development of a prime beachfront
    area in the coastal community where my wife and I now live and getting
    the reserve land usurped by commercial interests reinstated as public
    reserve.

    Over the years I've written numerous submissions and spoken to those
    submissions or given evidence before numerous commissions, committees
    and courts. Some battles were lost and others won. But the way I look
    at it, you can't make a difference unless you at least try.

    Speaking of which, what significant changes to the country have you
    personally achieved with your cynicism and apathy?
     
    Donchano, Apr 25, 2012
    #37
  18. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    You are going to live forever? What other delusions do you have?

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2012
    #38
  19. Frank Williams

    Enkidu Guest

    LOL! The best justification for holding elections that I've seen!

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 25, 2012
    #39
  20. Frank Williams

    Donchano Guest

    Depends on whether you're referring to my physical being or my
    spiritual being. And before you change the subject - which is DOT.COM
    - I'm not willing to discuss my beliefs with you.
    You're very good at jumping to conclusions based entirely on your own
    ignorance.
     
    Donchano, Apr 25, 2012
    #40
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