Does printer ink really cost more to make than it does to mine silver?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. Very true. However, my only uses for photo-quality printing DO require
    permanence, at least in my own mind. And proofing for that printing
    requires identical results to the printing....
    For prints held by yourself or immediate friends this is an option that
    is, I think, too often overlooked.

    I wouldn't be comfortable with it for prints I was selling commercially
    -- but I don't sell prints commercially (anywhere near often enough to
    matter). I suspect I, and others, are using standards higher than
    really necessary because we have aspirations (even if not serious).
    What's "5 ct"? Cents? Or hundred something? The context suggests it's
    a fair amount.

    Old chemical processes have been left in the dust long ago, per Wilhelm
    Imaging Research reports. (Well, some of the real exotics have merely
    been matched. And I never really liked the look of carbon color prints
    I've seen.) Want to be more specific and give a source?
    Yes, that's true.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Nov 1, 2011
    #41
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  2. RichA

    Guest Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    Are pictures printed by a color laser printer permanent compared to a
    photo?
     
    Guest, Nov 3, 2011
    #42
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  3. No way --- I'd then need a dedicated colour printing machine.
    US only, wrong paper size, no colour. Amazon TN360 Toner
    Cartridge apparently not an OEM cartridge.

    Obviously not for me.
    Here's a page comparing per-page costs for a lot pf inkjet
    and laser printers.
    http://computer.t-online.de/drucker...-farblaser-und-laserdrucker/id_19972952/index

    For example, tha A3-multifunction inkjet costs 1ct per
    BW-page (A4). No laser in the test goes lower than 1ct, most
    cost more. True, on the average lasers are a bit cheaper per
    page --- but that is on the average, and even a 2ct advantage
    means 5000 pages per 100 EUR price difference.

    (beware, there's one error on the page: the BW and colour
    costs for the Canon Pixma MP980 got swapped around.)
    $60 per 5000 pages black text ... Needs a lot of printing to
    break even.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Nov 7, 2011
    #43
  4. If it's your business selling prints, it's a different story.

    Do you need photo-grade ink for general text printing?


    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Nov 7, 2011
    #44
  5. Cents. 1/100 of an Euro. Which is what a cheap ink would
    approximately cost per photo.
    Unfortunately, I'm not up to date with whatever accellerated
    aging method is in vogue now and how much it reflects reality
    and what realistic times are to be expected from such
    experiments, so I might have been wrong ...


    I've seen photographs from the 1860's and 1880's
    http://translate.google.com/transla...l=en&u=http://www.echo-muenster.de/node/50896
    (which predates modernity, but embodies it's spirit) which
    were in very good shape. And unlike accellerated aging which
    relies on theories on how the aging process would speed up,
    these were the real thing.

    I haven't yet seen 100 year old inkjet prints, since I haven't
    invented a time machine yet. :)

    I've seen what 7 decades of light can do to a photograph (the
    borders were hidden by the frame and thus show the difference),
    so it depends a lot on storage conditions. But I've also seen a
    print (on wood back) that's over 100 years and hasn't had archive
    conditions ... and is OK.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Nov 7, 2011
    #45
  6. Exactly.

    And, like most people here I suspect, I really do it so rarely that,
    rationally, I shouldn't worry about it much. I suppose it's one of
    those "aspirational" things. At least it'c cheaper than racing cars.
    No, but that's the only printer I have near my computer.

    Mostly I print on the one two floors up and run up to get the output.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Nov 8, 2011
    #46
  7. I've never used cheap inks, that's too low for me to register as a
    possible ink cost.
    Henry Wilhelm is arguably the leading researcher on the topic; in fact
    he pretty much created the field of studying print permanence, starting
    with uncovering some of the bad Kodak problems back in the...70s?

    That said -- we don't know how accurate the accelerated testing is,
    because the materials haven't existed long enough to compare much.
    Accelerated testing is as much black art as science.
    Yes, we got rather lucky with silver gelatine B&W photo.
    Yes, that's exactly the problem.
    Yep. And exact materials weren't very standardized 70 or 100 years ago,
    so it's somewhat hard to be sure how the pictures you were looking at
    were even made.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Nov 8, 2011
    #47
  8. RichA

    John Turco Guest


    How is your R2880 doing, concerning clogs? My former inkjet (Epson "Stylus
    Photo 825") was absolutely horrid!
     
    John Turco, Nov 12, 2011
    #48
  9. RichA

    John Turco Guest


    My Hewlett-Packard "Photosmart D7160" (a 2006 model) has >never<
    had any clogs. I've been using it since late March of 2007, and
    have run about 1,400 sheets of plain paper through it. Plus, 5
    pieces of HP "Advanced Photo Paper" (4"x6" glossy) and 2 Avery
    "48850" label sheets.

    It doesn't matter how often (or infrequently) I print, nor do
    humidity or temperature conditions cause issues. The D7160 is
    a sturdy, heavy, reliable and attractive machine.

    Those positive attributes didn't quite apply to any of my
    earlier inkjets:

    DEC "DECcolorwriter 550ic"

    Canon "BJC-610"

    Epson "Stylus Photo 825"

    Of this group, the Epson was the worst, by far -- a
    genuine "clog hog" that made me swear off the brand,
    forever.

    Here's an excerpt from HP's "Ink twice" Web page, that
    I downloaded soon after buying the D716:

    HP Science of printing - Inkjet technology - Ink twice
    <http://h50140.www5.hp.com/eng/advisorycontent/generic/jan05/sop-ink-twice.asp?country=66>

    "HP's on-call mechanic

    For 12 years, HP has received an A+ rating from PC M
    agazine for printer reliability. A lot of that success
    has to do with the 'service station' technology that
    keeps your printer's engine running clean—and reduces
    pesky ink clogs.

    • The service station checks the microscopic nozzles
    to ensure they're clean and open.
    • If a print nozzle isn't working, the service station
    lets your printer compensate. (After all, there are
    300 nozzles on each cartridge.)
    • Your printer also uses an itsy-bitsy squeegee to
    wipe down the print head, removing dried ink spray
    and paper dust."

    Whatever HP is doing to reduce clogs...it works! As
    a bonus, the D7160 recycles the ink needed to clean
    its printhead, instead of "wasting" it.
     
    John Turco, Nov 12, 2011
    #49
  10. RichA

    John Turco Guest

    :


    Hewlett-Packard inkjet cartridges have expiration dates.
    Whenever my "Photosmart D7160" warns me about the dire
    consequences of using one that's past its prime, I just
    tell it to shut up and keep printing!
     
    John Turco, Nov 12, 2011
    #50
  11. RichA

    John Turco Guest

    Wolfgang Exler wrote:


    Would you (or the other "Wolfgang") translate that into English,
    please?
     
    John Turco, Nov 12, 2011
    #51
  12. RichA

    John Turco Guest

    Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:

    <edited>

    Keep at it, old man! No problem can resist your technical prowess,
    despite how daunting it may appear to mere mortals.

    I expect a full report on inkjet print longevity (circa 2111), in
    the coming weeks. (While you're at it, please, bring back one of
    those 100-trillion-pixels digicams of the future.)
     
    John Turco, Nov 12, 2011
    #52
  13. RichA

    John Turco Guest


    Apparently, then, the more expensive Epson inkjets are better at
    avoiding clogs? My Stylus Photo 825 was clearance-priced at $69.98
    USD, in a local "Super Target" store; I'd grabbed it, on April 1,
    2004.

    [Hmmm...I should've noticed that it was April Fool's Day!]
     
    John Turco, Nov 21, 2011
    #53
  14. http://translate.google.de/ gives a usable translation,
    though s/his/the/.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Dec 1, 2011
    #54
  15. You should have gotten those yesterday. If not, you're on
    the wrong branch of the timeline and will have to wait for
    the wave function to collapse, then you'll suddenly have
    gotten it (and used it etc.) some time ago.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Dec 2, 2011
    #55
  16. Ah, now you're at the stage of imagining things. Powerful drugs,
    indeed.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Dec 6, 2011
    #56
  17. RichA

    John Turco Guest


    C'mon, Wolfman...just tell me what it says!
     
    John Turco, Dec 22, 2011
    #57
  18. Google too complicated for you?

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jan 18, 2012
    #58
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