do browser understand colorspace?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by peter, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. peter

    peter Guest

    For people who use colorspace other than the default sRGB, if you drop a
    photo with a tagged colorspace into your browser, would it render the color
    correctly, or does it ignore the colorspace?
     
    peter, Feb 19, 2007
    #1
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  2. peter

    frederick Guest

    With some exceptions, it ignores it.
    IIRC (and IMO strangely) the now abandoned IE for mac is one exception.
    _Always_ use sRGB for web display - tagged or untagged.
     
    frederick, Feb 19, 2007
    #2
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  3. peter

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    If your image file has an embedded profile, most modern browsers will
    honor that profile. If there's no profile, the default is sRGB. Older
    browsers will simply ignore the profile and do whatever they want, which
    usually has the effect of using the monitor's profile. Since sRGB is a
    generic monitor profile, it's best practice to use sRGB for the web, and
    to embed the profile.
     
    Paul Mitchum, Feb 19, 2007
    #3
  4. peter

    frederick Guest

    Incorrect - most modern browsers won't "honour a profile" at all.
    from: http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page3;
    "It's truly ironic that the only Color-Smart Browser that's ever
    existed, as far as I know, is the now defunct Microsoft Internet
    Explorer for the Mac. It was color managed (if you turned on the option;
    oddly, it was not color managed by default) and it used sRGB for
    unprofiled images. Unfortunately, it was IE, so was woefully lame in
    every other respect. I hear that it doesn't even run on modern Macs."
     
    frederick, Feb 19, 2007
    #4
  5. peter

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    You might consider experimenting with it. There's a lot of old
    information out there, and there's a lot of incorrect information out
    there. Safari and Firefox honor embedded profiles. Some IE versions will
    honor a special CSS tag about color profiles.

    But I'm in general agreement with you about the best practice: Use sRGB
    and embed the profile.
     
    Paul Mitchum, Feb 19, 2007
    #5
  6. peter

    frederick Guest

    http://www.color.org/version4html.html

    simple to check your browser:
    Result for PC:
    Mozilla - "The system does not support these ICC profiles"
    IE7 - "The system does not support these ICC profiles"

    Later I'll look at safari on an ibook - I don't have a mac handy.

    Mac provide some advice in a PDF from their website - that MAC OSX users
    can share images with embedded colourspace other than sRGB, and have
    these display properly on other users systems. If indeed safari is
    compliant, then this advice will lead to grief for mac users posting
    images on the web.
     
    frederick, Feb 19, 2007
    #6
  7. peter

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Weerd. I remembered reading that the latest Firefox supported embedded
    ICC profiles, but it clearly fails that test. Safari 2.0.4 passes.

    Another test page:
    <http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.h
    tml>
    This is the basic premise of color management. Mac OS X (and all Mac OS
    systems since 1995) have built-in color management, called ColorSync.
    Not all sharing occurs over the web, either.
    ....which is why it is, as we said, the best practice to use sRGB with
    embedded profile when publishing for the web. :)
     
    Paul Mitchum, Feb 20, 2007
    #7
  8. peter

    frederick Guest

    Paul Mitchum wrote:
    There's some reference I saw that they were working on it - but it was
    last century! I like the link I gave much better - much more instant recognition with
    less reading required for the casual user - and also of course it the
    official source!
    And IMO, it's where casual mac users can come unstuck. Sharing with
    their friends or colleagues using macs - no problem. Publish to a web
    page, and the advice in that pdf starts to turn sour. It's not exactly
    uncommon to see aRGB images on the WWW, especially from dslr users who
    read that using aRGB may be a good idea, their cameras can output in
    aRGB jpgs directly, but they don't really know why.
    I'm tending now to agree with you that there may be some slight
    advantage to tagging the sRGB profile, so as you say, it may be best
    practice.
     
    frederick, Feb 20, 2007
    #8
  9. peter

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Well, ideally, all web browsers would have color management. Users
    shouldn't have to care what profile they're using, if they don't need
    to. Web browsers should be able to display images properly, and part of
    that includes color management.

    It's not that Mac users are 'coming unstuck,' it's that they're
    benefiting in a way that they're not even aware is an issue for others.
    They're used to interoperability working the way it *should.*
     
    Paul Mitchum, Feb 20, 2007
    #9
  10. peter

    frederick Guest

    Paul Mitchum wrote:
    heh - thread drift is taking this from rec.photo.digital to perhaps
    being more suited to alt.endlessarguments.macvstheevilempire
     
    frederick, Feb 20, 2007
    #10
  11. peter

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Well, no. Your position seems to be that Mac users are somehow to blame
    for the fact that non-Mac software is broken, when it comes to color
    management in web browsers.

    My horse in this race is not the Mac, but interoperability. Users
    shouldn't be taught that the problem is their use of a color profile
    other than sRGB; they should be taught that their software is letting
    them down. Then there'll be a move towards better software, rather than
    the status quo of poor interoperability.

    This distinction might belong on
    alt.all.web.browsers.suck.except.safari, rather than rec.photo.digital,
    but it's not an argument against The Evil Empire. Vista, for instance,
    has a new color management subsystem.

    It's all good, maaaaan. :)
     
    Paul Mitchum, Feb 20, 2007
    #11
  12. peter

    frederick Guest

    Does the new Vista subsystem do something that couldn't have been done
    on XP - ie with the "color" control panel applet installed? Is it
    needed anyway (in terms of having colour-aware browser), adobe don't
    have a problem with colour-aware apps in XP?
    Is ie7 / vista colour aware? (ie7 / xp isn't)
     
    frederick, Feb 20, 2007
    #12
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