Digital photography with flatbedscanner

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Vincent de Groot, Jun 15, 2006.

  1. Vincent de Groot, Jun 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. Vincent de Groot

    Dmac Guest

    I'll give out a few previously not published "secrets" now.
    Flat bed scanners are basically like hugely expensive scanning back
    digital cameras. One fellow I know has been using one on a "copy camera"
    for years to photograph paintings for reproduction as canvas prints.

    When ever I find one of the monolithic vertical cameras like he uses,
    I'll be doing the same. Until then I use a 5D for the job and only get
    "nearly as good" as his stuff.

    I discovered about 5 years ago that the best way to "photograph"
    jewelery was to use a flat bed scanner to do the image capture. The
    Jeweler I did the catalogue for remarked they were the best pictures of
    his work he had ever had done.

    The images from a FB scanner are "first generation" stuff and are likely
    to be way better than anything done with an anti-alias filter. Depth of
    field is the killer!

    Great example, congratulations and yes, they are photographs... Digital
    ones at that!
     
    Dmac, Jun 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. Vincent de Groot

    Lobby Dosser Guest

    Yes! Great article! I will soon have a surplus scanner that I was going to
    give away. Now I'm looking for a lens on ebay.
     
    Lobby Dosser, Jun 16, 2006
    #3
  4. Vincent de Groot

    wayne Guest

    wayne, Jun 16, 2006
    #4
  5. Vincent de Groot

    Bill K Guest

    It uses light and captures images so it it looks like it, tastes like
    and smells like it then it must be photography. That was a great
    article. Thanks for sharing. I would be hesitant about putting seafood
    on my scanner.
    Bill in Lake Charles
     
    Bill K, Jun 16, 2006
    #5
  6. It's hell to use for capturing BB however, or footers, or footie, or
    football, either bank of Atlantic....

    Lights can also be inserted for special effects.
     
    John McWilliams, Jun 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Hi Wayne,
    I will be happy so see that link,

    Vinc

    http://www.photo-vinc.com
     
    Vincent de Groot, Jun 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Vincent de Groot

    Bill K Guest

     
    Bill K, Jun 16, 2006
    #8
  9. Oh, it's great for portraits; really dramatic light fall off, great
    shadows, incredible detail such as seeing *into* pores.... And the age
    old copier at the office loses out when used for the, uh, other cheeks.
     
    John McWilliams, Jun 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Vincent de Groot

    Tim Guest


    Can someone enlighten an idiot please :)

    How do you set a scanner up as a camera?
    Do you need to set up a bellows type rig with a glass plate to focus and
    then swop that out for the scanner or are there neater tricks?

    TIA

    Tim
     
    Tim, Jun 16, 2006
    #10
  11. Vincent de Groot

    wayne Guest

    Ok, you could have read the articles quoted :) but here goes:

    There are two ways to use a scanner as a camera:
    1. Requires no additional equipment and simply involves placing objects
    directly on the glass and scanning them. This can involved still
    objects, as in the original article or moving objects, as you can see
    with a couple of pics on my site I did for my students
    <http://www.artinyourface.com/scanner/index.html>

    2. Requires additional equipment and scanner modification to turn the
    scanner into a back for a view camera (effectively). This gives you a
    very high resolution scanning back.

    Cheers,

    Wayne

    Wayne J. Cosshall
    Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
    Blog and Podcast http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
    Assistant Director, International Digital Art Award
    Coordindinator of Studies, Multimedia and Photomedia, Australian
    Academy of Design
    Personal art site http://www.artinyourface.com/
     
    wayne, Jun 16, 2006
    #11
  12. Vincent de Groot

    wayne Guest

    You can unwrap the skin from a person's face though. You lay an ear on
    the scanner, then as the light advances you roll your face so that it
    starts scanning your ear, progresses across your face and then finishes
    on the other ear. Weird but it works.

    On a related note, good scanners for playing with are the Canon LiDE
    models. Since they draw power off the USB there is only one cable and
    so you can pick them up and move them around rather than the subject. I
    always demo this with my students and they are amazed. I have one LiDE
    with the lid broken off just for this. You can also lay the scanner on
    things.

    Cheers,

    Wayne
     
    wayne, Jun 17, 2006
    #12
  13. Vincent de Groot

    Tim Guest

    Ok, you could have read the articles quoted :) but here goes:
    Hi Wayne

    Interesting site, thanks for the link

    Sorry I didn't write the question very well

    I'm up to speed on the scanning/imaging side of things and have had a play
    with it in the past

    I was hoping for a bit more info on your point 2 below, things like the rig
    set up, are there any tips and tricks, focusing/exposure tips etc
    Are you stuck with setting up a view camera set up or can you do fun things
    with a pin hole box strapped to the front of the scanner etc

    Thanks for any hints

    Tim
     
    Tim, Jun 17, 2006
    #13
  14. Good points; sounds like you have more fun with scanners than most...

    Wayne, I wonder if you have tried Mozilla for news. You might like it
    way better than Google. Using a news reader has a lot of advantages. I
    am assuming your ISP offers a news feed, of course; perhaps I shouldn't.
    I happen to use Thunderbird for News, and as a back up mail client.
     
    John McWilliams, Jun 17, 2006
    #14
  15. Vincent de Groot

    wayne Guest

    Hi Tim,

    Ok, so converting scanner to a camera.
    Here's a few links:
    <http://www.interaction.rca.ac.uk/alumni/02-04/michael/ScannerCamera/>
    <http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/scanner.html>

    I tried a pinhole and couldn't get enough light through. I am going to
    try it again with a proper lens and a bellows setup. It obviously can
    be done.

    One hassle is the scanner driver/software. It is designed for scanning
    from the scanner light source, and so scans faster than you might want
    to for camera use. I know people have used 3rd party software for this.
    Another is the need to turn the light off in the scanner.

    I'm intending to give it another go soon.

    Cheers,

    Wayne

    Wayne J. Cosshall
    Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
    Blog and Podcast http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
    Assistant Director, International Digital Art Award
    Coordindinator of Studies, Multimedia and Photomedia, Australian
    Academy of Design
    Personal art site http://www.artinyourface.com/
     
    wayne, Jun 18, 2006
    #15
  16. Vincent de Groot

    wayne Guest

    Hi John,

    Sure. Do it to my students all the time. Satisfies my Silence of the
    Lambs tendencies in a wholesome way :)))))
    I try to push the gear I have as far as I can think of ways in doing
    it.

    I'm downloading it now. Thanks for that. I hadn't tried it but will
    now. That's what I love about news, you always learn something.

    Cheers,

    Wayne

    Wayne J. Cosshall
    Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
    Blog and Podcast http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
    Assistant Director, International Digital Art Award
    Coordindinator of Studies, Multimedia and Photomedia, Australian
    Academy of Design
    Personal art site http://www.artinyourface.com/
     
    wayne, Jun 18, 2006
    #16
  17. I have a CanoScan with transparency attachment - a light in the
    (removable) lid for scanning negs. One of this type may be easier to
    adapt as a scanning back for large format!
    Phil
     
    Phil Kempster, Jun 18, 2006
    #17
  18. One problem with the LiDE scanners is their incredibly shallow depth of
    field. Regular flatbed scanners have a small CCD, perhaps an inch long,
    and use a lens to image the full width of the paper (usually 8.5 inches)
    onto that. The light path is folded a couple of times for compactness
    of the scanning head, but the light travels about a foot from paper to
    the lens. All this means that there's a reasonable DOF, on the order of
    several mm at least, above the scanner glass on a regular scanner.

    But the LiDE scanners use a sensor that is 8.5 inches long. Instead of
    a single lens, they use an array of thousands of little lenslike things
    arranged in what looks like a black plastic bar to image the paper
    surface onto the sensor. The optics are working at 1:1, and the object
    and image distance is maybe 1 cm or less. So the DOF is very small, and
    anything that's not right on the glass is out of focus.

    (It's really an interesting optical system. I suspect the "lenses" are
    really GRIN lenses, pieces of specially-made fiber optics that can focus
    images. The image produced has to be *right way around*, not inverted
    like a normal single lens image, in order for the thousands of
    overlapping little images to produce one seamless single image on the
    sensor.)

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Jun 19, 2006
    #18
  19. Hi Dave,

    That is true. But hey, you can't have everything :)

    Seriously, it is all a tradeoff. I like the LiDEs because I can use them
    with a laptop away from power.

    Cheers,

    Wayne
     
    Wayne J. Cosshall, Jun 19, 2006
    #19
  20. I haven't tried that, but I do use a LiDE unit as my main scanner
    connected to a desktop computer. It takes up far less desk space. I
    use it for all paper and photo print scanning I do.

    But when I want to get the best possible image of something that won't
    lie flat on the glass, it's time to think about getting out the old
    clunker big-box scanner.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Jun 19, 2006
    #20
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