Dfine vs Neat Image PS Plug-ins for Nikon D100

I'm trying to decide on one of these two plug-ins. I want to use them for
digital pictures from a Nikon D100. The pictures are at high ISO 800-1600
and I would like to be able to do batch operations.

Any suggestions or watch outs?

thanks

Steve

 

I use NeatImage Pro Plus. It comes with a stand-alone application
and a PS plugin. I use the latter all the time, very powerful and
extremely convenient. Similar NR products may be a little easier
to learn and maybe less expensive but IMHO none is as powerful
as Neat Image. It takes some time before you master it, but once
you fully understand how it works, you will get great results.

 

Thanks

I liked the results I got from the Neat Image demo better than Dfine, so I
continue to lean that way.

Steve

 

When used as a plug-in can the noise reduction be limited to a selection or the
contents of a layer?

The reason I ask is I have tried Neat Image as a stand alone application trying
to de-noise some high ISO shots from the dpreview site as a test case.

I chose one with trees in the shot and when de-noising the image well enough to
remove noise from areas of smooth texture it also lost most of the detail in
the leaves on the trees.

I then tried Noise Ninja and that has a nice little feature whereby you can
"paint" over the filtered image so that the original pixels replace those in
the output image.

So I was able to get the detail back in trees.

However it would be nice to be able to apply the noise reduction selectively in
the first place rather than go through this post-noise reduction step.

Maybe I have been missing something on how to use Neat Image but with high iso
high noise images whenever I got rid of the noise I got rid of other detail as
well.

Dave

 

SNIP

Yes on both counts.

That indicates that the settings were not optimal. With practice, detail
loss can practically be avoided while noise reduction is still performed. It
is also beneficial to leave a little noise in the image, because that
reduced potential posterization.

A layer technique in Photoshop gives most flexibility, because you can
adjust a mask on the Neat layer indefinitely.

Try reducing the Luminance noise reduction amount (Y) a bit (40-50%).
Building a good noise profile in the first place, helps tremendously.

Bart

 

Hi Bart and Dave --

Just want to add 2 cents to the idea that
Neat Image, when set correctly, can remove
copious amounts of noise while preserving
and even enhancing all useful/visible detail.
You've gotta practice a bit, but for deep-imaging-geeks addicted to
playful exploration of cybernia and its pixellated environs
that's a no-painer.

-- stan

 

Yes and yes.

Sounds like your settings aren't right. You need a reliable noise
profile to start with. Check with the ABSoft website, they have
a bunch available for download for all DSLR's.

 

Very good................I think

Dave

 

I have a Minolta A1 and tried the profile on the Neat Image site for that which
was produced by another A1 user (I think).

I am curious as to how a noise profile which sounds like a "one size fits all"
approach to noise reduction can work for all images. Surely some images will
have fine detail that will be taken as noise by the noise reduction software?

Dave

 

NeatImage works very much by "pattern recognition".
In fact, the first step to successful noise removal is to
have the program analyze the most consistent and featurless
area in your photo. That's why loading a camera-specific
profile is important, so that program knows what kind of
noise pattern to look for, by comparing the profile to the
section of the photo it is analyzing. But that's only the
beginning...

 

Ok. Before buying the A1 I was using a download of one of Phil Askey's images
taken with that camera at ISO 400 as a test.

This one in fact:

http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/minoltadimagea1_samples1/originals/030923-1833-29-a.jpg

The trees at the bottom left lost all detail when I Neat Imaged it to get rid
of the noise on the white walls - which it got rid of very well. It just took
half the leaves with it.

The was using the noise profile for the A1 from the Neat Image web site.

If you could give a clue as to how to de-noise this image properly that would
be great as aquiring the skill to do so would be useful for the type of images
I shoot.

I tend to prefer the Neat Image GUI to that of Noise Ninja and especially like
the ability to switch instantly from the processed to the unprocessed image
(which NN does not allow).

Dave

 

http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/minoltadimagea1_samples1/originals/030923-1833-29-a.jpg

Whoa, this is one I would toss rather than try to fix...
This is possibly one of the worst case scenarios, since the
photo ranges from severely under-exposed (at the bottom)
to severely over-exposed (at the top.) Obviously there is
no way you can fix it with common settings, you'll have
to work section by section and it will be VERY time-
consuming.

You start by identifying the various areas of the picture
that need more or less treatment and you work with
PS selections. Find "consistent" patches (i.e. solid color
areas with no details) within every area and have them
analyzed by NeatImage. Work with layers so that every
attempt can be easily undone. A good job on this one
would take hours and the results will not be breathtaking.
In other words, it's not worth it. Way too much detail
is permanently lost and NeatImage is not a miraculous
cure.

 

Well I guess I did choose a bad one!

That is what I thought (about Neat Image having its limitations) but I was
starting to think there were Neat Image experts out there who could rescue this
image by a few judicious tweaks here and there in one go.

Given what you say you would have to do to use Neat Image on this photo I think
Noise Ninja is a better tool to try and get something out it. As I said you
can apply a general noise reduction and then use a wand type tool to restore
original pixels (in the tress for example) to fix the over-processed parts of
the image.

While waving the wand over the image is a bit time consuming it sounds a lot
less time consuming than the process you describe and probably equates better
to how much effort it is worth spending on the image.

Conclusion? Have both Neat Image and Noise Ninja available!

Dave

 

You can do the same with NeatImage. Select areas you don't
want affected by the NR first, invert the selection and proceed.

 

The nice thing about NeatImage is that if you don't want to use one of the
ready-made camera-specific profiles, you can create your own profiles for
each ISO directly from your own camera.

 

I gave it a try as an overall NI operation.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/temp/030923-1833-29-a-NI.png (6.62MB), I saved
it as a lossless PNG, so it's three times bigger than the JPEG, but I didn't
want to lose more detail. It'll be up for download temporarily.

Because it was a JPEG it also accumulated JPEG artifacts, which had to be
removed (in addition to the ISO 400 noise). I usually work on better base
material, and work on layers. This, which I didn't do for this one, allows
to keep the noise where it could be mistaken for detail (like in the leaves)
and clean-up the obvious featureless areas. Figuring out the parameters took
about 2-3 minutes (there are too many small tweaks to summarize), but it
takes restraint and a bit of practice...

Bart

 

Is selecting areas you don't want affected available in Neat Image stand alone
or when used as a plug in?

Dave

 

I would have thought that was the way to go in the long run as there must be
some sample variability between each camera.

I think I need to do some more research into the program.

Dave

 

Thanks for having a go, the 2mbit DSL link at work downloaded it PDQ

I shall experiment myself to see what I can come up with. Don't hold your
breath I reckon its going to take some time to master the program and since I
am off on holiday a less than a couple of weeks I shall have other things to do


Dave

 

SNIP

Either as layers in Photoshop, masking whatever you want to keep untoughed
or not, or by making a selection first and running the plug-in on that
selection.

Bart