developing next windows versions

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by gustavo souza, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. What kind of training should one get to have a job developing the next
    versions of windows itself, NOT applications for windows? For example, to
    improve windows, one should know the current source code. But if you're not
    an employee, that's illegal, according to those laws. The first day somebody
    works at microsoft, what does the company do? Pay each programmer for 2 to 3
    years 'til the guy studies the code, and only after that, starts programming?
    I'm asking something specific because "knowledge of OS" is not. What
    training, books, courses, certifications should one get? Thank you.
     
    gustavo souza, Apr 9, 2009
    #1
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  2. gustavo souza

    TBone Guest

    You would require training and experience in programming and most likely
    a development certification like MCSD. Having said that, for OS level
    programming, a computer science degree might be your best choice.

    As for your question about knowing the source code. There are huge teams
    of people developing windows. Each team works on different parts. So the
    work an individual gets is just a module that is part of the greater
    whole. Like an API or a DLL or something. For example, a firend of mine
    worked for MS on his co-op term and he wrote what became the media
    player for windows95. He never saw any other part of the code.

    So unless you plan on being the next Linus Torvalds and writing an
    entire operating system yourself, before you consider any type of
    programming job, you'll need to work on the fundamental understanding of
    how large software applications are developed.
     
    TBone, Apr 9, 2009
    #2
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  3. Thanks for saying that, but it only answers part of the question. I'm almost
    graduating in computer science and I know about OO programming and
    documentation. If someone's writing just an application for the OS, like
    windows media player, all they should know is what kind of interface and
    WIN32 API, for it to work on the OS.

    But what if someone wants to IMPROVE the OS itself, like making it lighter
    and faster? Millions of lines of code would have to be altered, so would the
    core in assembly and C level. Somebody needs to have access to a lot of the
    core code, and not just a small thing they're making, like "minesweeper for
    the internet". Back compatibility with everything has to exist. Making the
    next version of Directx means putting even better physics and linear algebra
    functions in it. Besides it needs to be compatible with the new OS core.
    How can I get a job like that? Knowing the core of windows to make it better.

    About the certification, I'm studying for the MCSE. Is that good enough to
    get a job improving the existing code?

    I know it's tough to answer this, but even if you don't know, pass it on. I
    called microsoft but they were not specific enough. Just asked me to look at
    the careers website. I've done that. I'm gonna keep asking this to the
    entire world 'til I find an answer. Thanks.
     
    gustavo souza, Apr 9, 2009
    #3
  4. gustavo souza

    FrisbeeĀ® Guest

    See what happens when you try to enlighten an idiot, T-Bone?
     
    FrisbeeĀ®, Apr 9, 2009
    #4
  5. To be more specific about what I want, here are two examples: improving the
    existing source codes of windows processor scheduler, and the monitor to
    guarantee better mutual exclusion, between processes and resources for the
    new processors that are coming.

    Not just make an application like windows media player, internet explorer,
    or notepad. To do that, not only deep understanding in operating systems is
    required, but unlimited access to the core code. The problem is with the
    "ones" at microsoft that are not cooperating with their vague answers.

    By the way, I'm already making a graphical operating system. Thanks.
     
    gustavo souza, Apr 9, 2009
    #5
  6. gustavo souza

    James Guest


    Put an NDA on a sticky note, and stick it to Ballmer's car. I'm sure
    you'll get a copy of the source in the mail in no time flat.

    JB
     
    James, Apr 9, 2009
    #6
  7. gustavo souza

    PAJ Guest

    So there is not going to be a new minesweeper for the Internet?
    If you change your mind please put me down as a beta tester.
    Thanks awfully.
     
    PAJ, Apr 9, 2009
    #7
  8. Okay... let me offer an alternative answer.

    You want to work on programming a commercial operating system...

    For starters you're going to need *YEARS* of experience programming. Period.

    You want experience: Volunteer to do some open source work.

    Build a portfolio of successful development projects.

    Working on something as significant as a commercial operating system (e.g.
    Windows), is less about education and a LOT about ability; and you'll need
    to be able to prove that ability.

    An undergrad college degree is a good start.

    Now, put that education to work "paying your dues".

    This statement here... no disrespect intended... demonstrates how shallow
    your awareness of the actual requirements:
    And, again, you also missed the point. Nobody works on the "whole system".
    Each individual works on VERY SMALL PARTS of the whole system, and "making
    an [OS] lighter and faster" is about making the individual components
    "lighter and faster", and making anything "lighter and faster" comes with
    EXPERIENCE.

    As for certifications....

    [1] Studying for the MCSE won't get you anywhere near a development job.
    (Not being able to recognize the correct certifications for a development
    career speaks volumes about your readiness for a job as a systems
    developer.)

    [2] Certifications require knowledge and experience in APPLICATIONS
    programming -- see experience recommendation above.

    However, to that point, it would be my expectation that having an MCPD will
    go a long way toward getting you into the interview room at Microsoft. Not
    having the cert, will almost certainly keep you out.


    --
    Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCITP:EA, MCDBA
    Principal/CTO, Onsite Technology Solutions, Houston, Texas
    Microsoft MVP - Software Distribution (2005-2009)

    MS WSUS Website: http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
    My Websites: http://www.onsitechsolutions.com;
    http://wsusinfo.onsitechsolutions.com
    My MVP Profile: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Lawrence.Garvin
     
    Lawrence Garvin [MVP], Apr 12, 2009
    #8
  9. gustavo souza

    Rob Wolfe Guest

    == Quote from TBone ([email protected])'s article
    I would have to agree here. However, a light mix of real-world experience blended
    slowly in with a pinch of that degree would work better *smiles*.
    Now this is a cool tidbit :) I am in a similar situation. I have a friend that
    was a developer on the Internet Explorer 5 team. He, too, never saw very much, if
    any, of the entire Windows code (granted, seeing the ENTIRE slew of code that
    makes up Windows as a whole I think would be interesting.
    Being a Linux fanatic myself (the news server I am posting this on is run in my
    home using Linux) I have to say that even Linux as a whole isn't developed by
    Linus alone -- there are tons of other contributors to the code that Linux implements.
     
    Rob Wolfe, Apr 19, 2009
    #9
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