Dell

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Chuck Ammon, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Chuck Ammon

    Pete Guest

    1.power supply that died.
    2. laptop that said there's no HD
    3. desktop that always locked up
    4. mobo that died.
    5. machine that would not boot after 4 months
    etc, etc.
    Statistically I realize there are people at opposite ends of spectrum, there
    are people who have who no matter what they do they do will never have any
    problems no matter how they abuse items. Then there are those who will
    always have problems. It's like cars, if you own or purchase allot of
    automobiles you will come across a few lemons regardless if they just came
    off the showroom floor. So you have a choice,
    return the item get your money back, (good luck if your out of warranty) and
    find a different vendor or learn to fix your plumbing, your car and your
    computer. Additionally, if you build your own machine and get a quality
    motherboard that's half the battle, dell motherboards are propriety.
     
    Pete, Jan 23, 2004
    #21
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  2. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    The problem isn't competition. I have no problem competing with an indian
    worker. But here in America, I have to be paid $5.25/hr at the least. If
    that's the starting wage, and I have a high school and college education, I
    should be able to make at least three times that, or else I can't afford to
    even come close to supporting myself. Now, why would Dell hire me for
    $15.00/hr when they can hire someone in India for $3.00/hr to do the same
    work? That is why Walmart got in trouble recently, they hire illegal
    immigrants to do their maintenance jobs (cleaning, basically). No one can
    get a job like that at Walmart because they don't want to pay someone
    $5.25/hr to mop floors when they can pay an illegal worker $2.00/hr to do
    the same job.

    The solution is simple to deal with a company like Walmart. Make Walmart
    pay /every/ employee $5.25/hr, even if the employee shouldn't be in this
    country to start with.

    How to deal with Dell and other IT firms is tough. They aren't paying
    illegal immigrants to do work, and they aren't breaking any laws, so what
    they are doing (as unfair as it may be to Joe Public who wants a job), is
    completely legal.

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 23, 2004
    #22
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  3. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    I don't think that's his point at all. The point is due to favorable
    exchange rates and/or lower costs of living overseas, a company can get the
    same quality work with the same skills as an American for a cheaper price
    by simply taking the job away from the American.

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 23, 2004
    #23
  4. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Really? A 2 port router? What model would this be, and where can you buy
    it for $20?

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 23, 2004
    #24
  5. Chuck Ammon

    Thor Guest

    in this case it's not a matter of being isolationist of of having tariffs.
    It's simply a matter of one country with a substantially higher standard of
    living versus another, and trying to compete with radically different labor
    pools. Dell went for the cheap labor, and that's all there is to it. If you
    want to tell me that we deserve to lose jobs to India in order to compete,
    then you are telling me that competing in the free enterprise system is
    going to cost the US a large part of it's living standard, and put us much
    closer to the low standard that India has now, or at least the forseable
    future until India's living standard rises to meet ours. Something that
    could take decades to balance out. You simply cannot have a completely free
    market when you have two radically desparite standards of living, and income
    levels. Ultimately the country with the higher standard of living, and
    higher labor costs are going to lose out. This is what we have with Mexico,
    and it hasn't benefitted the US populace at large to see that substantial
    shift in jobs to south of our borders. It has merely benefitted corporate
    interests. And if that benefit to the corporate interest is going to result
    in increased employment for cheap laborers in foreign countries rather than
    for Americans, then there isn't much point in Americans supporting that type
    of free enterprise system. I'm all for free trade, but not at the expense of
    US jobs. When the jobs go, so does the income, and thus any real interest in
    supporting free trade to begin with. Free trade is only a benefit to *both*
    parties when the two parties have similar standards of living. Commerce is
    unencumbered, and jobs aren't exported because there is no financial
    incentive for companies to switch labor pools when the wages are comparable.
    So I'm saying we should only have truly free trade with countries that have
    similar labor wages.
     
    Thor, Jan 23, 2004
    #25
  6. Chuck Ammon

    mark mandel Guest

    Well, it's the same exact thing with Microsoft. I've found that the Indian
    techs are fairly polite and earnestly attempt to help out as much as they
    can. However, I can also think back to last Labor day weekend when my hard
    drive died. I didn't know it at the time, thinking that the booting up
    difficulty was due to something else and never thinking the drive's health
    was an issue. So I called Microsoft and was routed(or shall we now say
    "outsourced")to New Delhi. Then over the next few days I must have spoken
    at length with about four techs, the last one being a supervisor who spent
    at least three hours attempting to fix the problem as he dutifully
    instructed me what to do.

    None of this worked. The trouble is of course that aside from the language
    issue(which I have to say wasn't that troublesome in this case), the techs
    are only going by what they read from the Microsoft Knowledge base and as
    helpful as that may be, it STILL can't cover too many bases. Ultimately a
    local geek(who's helped me on many occasions)determined that the drive had
    failed. And I managed to get a refund from Microsoft based on their "fee
    for incident" policy.

    Mark Mandell
     
    mark mandel, Jan 24, 2004
    #26
  7. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    Siemens. I install them all the time.

    And I don't pay anywhere near $20 for them.


    Have a nice week...

    Trent

    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
     
    Trent©, Jan 24, 2004
    #27
  8. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    And that's never gonna happen.

    That's why I support tariffs.


    Have a nice week...

    Trent

    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
     
    Trent©, Jan 24, 2004
    #28
  9. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    So this is a small pile of poop router compared to a Linksys then? And
    again, where do you get them for $20 for?

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 24, 2004
    #29
  10. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    I would support a system where if a company outsources to another country,
    they must still meet things like the minimum wage and such. If they choose
    to pay a factory worker in korea $.17/hr, the other $5.08/hr is paid as a
    tax/tarriff to the US government for economic recovery. See how fast those
    jobs come back to the US then.

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 24, 2004
    #30
  11. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    Siemens??!!!! lol
    I could tell you...but then I'd hafta kill you! lol

    I *SELL* them for about $20.


    Have a nice week...

    Trent

    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
     
    Trent©, Jan 24, 2004
    #31
  12. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    I find it amazing that you can sell, at profit, a router for $20 and have
    it be anywhere near the quality of a low end Linksys router. What model
    Siemens router do you sell for $20?

    You say the name as if just because it's by Siemens it must be good, yet I
    point to the Intel Celeron 300. Not 300A, but 300. Crap. Intel is still
    good, but that chip was crap. The name isn't everything.

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 24, 2004
    #32
  13. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Wait, wait, wait, you mean the SpeedStream 2602??? I looked for "Siemens"
    on pricewatch and found one for $16.99. Yes, I can see how high quality a
    model this is.

    Such simple setup, that at PriceGrabber.com I see a review where someone
    has two machines and apparently the documentation isn't clear enough and
    they didn't know how to hook the machines up to it!

    You sell your cheap junk for $17, I'll continue to use my Linksys products.

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 24, 2004
    #33
  14. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    How could you 'see' this? Interesting.

    Just curious...what's the manufacturing cost for each?
    Maybe I'll consider not selling them then. I didn't realize they were
    that complicated. If some guy couldn't hook one up...well, that
    pretty much cinches it! After all, they ARE pretty complicated. I
    mean...you found the Linksys difficult to hook up, didn't you?

    I have to plug in a patch cable...power supply...open up the
    browser...type in 4 sets of numbers...put in password.

    Yep...I can see where someone on PriceGrabber would definitely have a
    problem!! lol
    Sounds fair to me! Thanks! lol


    Have a nice week...

    Trent

    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
     
    Trent©, Jan 24, 2004
    #34
  15. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    Almost forgot...

    They only have 2 ports...so they should sell for at least 1/2 the
    price of your Linksys!! lol


    Have a nice week...

    Trent

    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
     
    Trent©, Jan 24, 2004
    #35
  16. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    What's amazing is that my SUPPLIER makes a profit on these, too! And,
    I would assume...Siemens also.
    And you think it must be junk...just because of the selling price.

    I see Lean Cuisines on sale sometimes...and that's when I buy them.
    Are these inferior to when they sell for full price?

    I paid over $300 for my TDK 12x burner when I bought it. Now that
    model new sells for under $50. Are these inferior units?

    Selling price doesn't always infer quality...or lack thereof.
    Never said it was. But YOU implied that it is...when I said
    Siemens...just because you weren't familiar with the name.


    Have a nice week...

    Trent

    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
     
    Trent©, Jan 24, 2004
    #36
  17. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    No, but you are confusing a "sale" with a "selling price". Lean Cuisines
    MSRP is $3.99 for their Hearty Dinners, and $2.99 for their Cafe Classics.
    Putting them on a half price sale and getting them for $1.49 each doesn't
    mean they are a $1.49 product, they are on sale.
    They are old units. This router isn't old, it's just junk.
    To an extent it does. When Linksys, DLink, Netgear, and other big names
    have to sell them for $50 a piece, and Siemens can sell them for $20, it
    means one of two things:
    Siemens are just amazing and are great at cost control

    Siemens products are cheap junk, as noticed by looking for reviews of the
    router you pointed out, there are very few. The reviews there are include
    things like trouble installing it

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 24, 2004
    #37
  18. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    I'm sure there's MANY more than just 2 options.
    Siemens is singular.

    And maybe its a sale price...which it is, of course. They're simply
    dumping their wired product line.

    And maybe they need/want less profit than anybody else.

    And maybe a 2-port router is a specialized product.

    And maybe they're trying to flood the market.

    And maybe...well, you get the picture! lol
    I've never spent more than 5 minutes hooking one up...and that
    includes takin' off the shrink wrap from the OEM supplier.

    BTW...they come with a 2-year warranty. That's a pretty long time to
    take the risk...to stand behind junk! lol

    Its interesting that yer so adamant about a product that you know
    nothing about!

    Have a nice week...

    Trent

    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
     
    Trent©, Jan 25, 2004
    #38
  19. If that's his point then my point is that when the American can't
    compete then maybe the job *should* be given to the overseas worker.

    I'll grant that competition should be considered as only part of the
    equation-it makes no sense for a manufacturer to reduce costs by
    destroying his market-but it *is* part of the equation. And cost of
    living, exchange rates, etc. are simply indicators for the level of
    competition. Neither Americans nor others have any *right* to jobs-and
    Americans have been losing jobs simply because they're failing at
    competing for them.

    We've built up our country thru hard work & now it's only natural that
    we'd like to relax & enjoy the fruits of our labor. Sorry, but that's
    not the way nature works-and economics is a natural force. Kick back,
    relax, and shortly thereafter some stronger, more aggressive economy
    comes along & eats your lunch.

    As I see it we have two choices-either get back in the game or run
    everyone else out of it. Frankly, I don't think we can do the latter
    without destroying ourselves.
     
    Calvin Crumrine, Jan 26, 2004
    #39
  20. Chuck Ammon

    Night_Seer Guest

    Exactly, which doesn't mean that people in other countries are less
    skilled or more skilled, just paid less, and in essence they probably
    have equal skills to us, just that they get paid less for the same
    thing.

    In essence, this gives those companies free reign in a country with no
    workers rights, unions or minimum wage, things that were set up here to
    avoid exploitation. Basically, these companies are saying exploitation
    is OK as long as it is not in our country.

    Look at it this way...you have 2 choices living in Mexico if you are
    dirt poor. Work at a Macilladora for a measly wage that keeps you dirt
    poor and gives you NO CHANCE IN HELL of advancement, and the chance to
    lose your job ANYTIME, or try and cross the border and get better wages,
    better living conditions, better care, but have everyone and their
    mothers hate you for being an "illegal alien". That's pretty much it
    for choices, when comapnies do this sort of thing.
     
    Night_Seer, Jan 26, 2004
    #40
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