Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Chuck Ammon, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Chuck Ammon

    Chuck Ammon Guest

    Prospective DELL buyers: BEWARE!! Should you decide to buy a Dell, and if
    you have any problems or questions, you'll embark on an unprecedented trip
    around the entire country of India. I bought a Dell in February of 2003. I
    wanted to add a TV card to it, and had some problems. I spent hours on the
    phone being transferred from one technician to another, all throughout
    India. They are very friendly people and speak fair English, but when you
    have a technical problem and need concise information....forget it. The
    phone calls kept coming back to the same people. They didn't have a clue
    what they were doing and kept sending me in circles. Because of that, I
    swore I'd never buy another Dell. And oh yeah, to this day I still haven't
    gotten my $100 rebate. I gave up. Every time I'd call and check on it,
    they had a different excuse, and that was after being on hold for a minimum
    of 30 minutes. The last time I called they told me that they'd send it if
    the salesperson would verify my purchase. He was the only one that could
    authorize it. He won't return my phone calls or emails. His name is Jarrod

    My close friend decided to buy a new computer, and she insisted on a Dell.
    I had heard that Dell had gotten away from their previous policies, so I
    didn't fight her very much on it. WRONG!!! They delivered her computer
    yesterday (1/21/04). I told her that I would remove the hard drive from her
    old computer and install it in her new Dell so she could transfer all her
    data, and then use it as a backup storage device. When I opened the new
    Dell, I found that they have configured it so that you can't add a second
    hard drive. There is a special bracket that is needed. OK, it's a little
    disheartening, but I can live with it. So I called Dell this morning for
    her, and guess where I went?? Yep, India! 3 out 4 sentences that the
    technician spoke to me, I had to ask him to repeat. In the end, after
    countless attempts to try to make him understand what I needed, he told me
    that they can't sell me the bracket, that it comes as a kit with a new hard
    drive. In other words, I have to buy the second hard drive from Dell. Dell
    has fallen victim to the same policy that hurt Gateway several years ago.
    The bottom line here is that when you buy a Dell, its still theirs. It's
    not yours. You can't add what YOU want. You have to ADD what they allow,
    and apparently you have to buy it from them. About 6 months ago, Gateway
    sent me a letter (I was a former Gateway customer), and told me that they
    have changed their policy regarding these matters, and that when you buy a
    Gateway, it's yours once again and not theirs. So I will definitely
    consider Gateway the next time I buy, as well as recommending to friends NOT
    to buy a Dell.
    Chuck Ammon, Jan 22, 2004
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  2. Chuck Ammon

    LPV Guest

    (some snipped)

    You are absolutely correct!! I've had this same experience with Dell
    systems. In fact, the TV show '60 minutes' did a segment on this
    "outsourcing" a couple of weeks ago. More and more of these types of
    customer support functions are going to India. Unfortunately, Dell isn't
    the only company to do this. I have a client with a Gateway computer and
    I've had the same experience as Chuck describes. Although I don't know it
    as a fact, I suspect many other computer (and other) companies are turning
    to this very low cost "customer support" strategy. It makes me think
    seriously of turning to a "locally built and serviced" computer the next
    time I'm looking for one.

    LPV, Jan 22, 2004
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  3. The Watchdog program recently covered problems with Dell here in the UK.
    Kenny Cargill, Jan 22, 2004
  4. Chuck Ammon

    George Guest

    In one of the Dell Usenet groups it was mentioned that tech support for
    business customers has been brought back from India, but not for
    George, Jan 22, 2004
  5. 1) What difference doees it make where your phone call is answered?
    Phone service is phone service.
    2) You *might* have run into one a technician who has trouble with
    English. The fact that I deal with Dell frequently & have not run into
    that since they moved support overseas might be purely luck-or it might
    be because I learned to listen when they had support in the US and it
    seemed like I always got someone with a heavy accent (either Southern or
    Hispanic-neither was intelligible until I learned to listen). Accents
    don't cause trouble (over clear phone connections) if you're willing to
    listen & adapt your *expectations* to what you actually hear.
    3) I haven't bought a Dell in the last 9 months so maybe this
    requirement that you buy the drive from Dell is something new-or maybe
    it depends on the model you buy, but it *certainly* wasn't/isn't the
    general rule. Did your friend buy one of those ultra-low desktop models?
    As a rule of thumb, I've found that the less room there is in a case
    the more likely a manufacturer is to design special hardware for it-just
    look at laptops.
    Calvin Crumrine, Jan 22, 2004
  6. Chuck Ammon

    Night_Seer Guest

    I actually have had the same problems with Dell CS, and the accents ARE
    hard to understand, especially when you get into the more technical
    questions. Worse yet, this was as a small business purchse, and not an
    individual purchase. I will never buy or recomend Dell...some of the
    worst service I ever got.
    Night_Seer, Jan 22, 2004
  7. While I won't claim that I'll *always* buy or recommend Dell (things
    change) I will say that I currently buy & recommend Dell-because they
    provide some of the *best* service I ever got.

    I still think the difference is in our standards-I've worked with many
    nationalities over the years (military service) & decided long ago that
    my way wasn't the only way. I don't care what their accent's like, if
    they speak my language then I can generally understand them. And I only
    insist that they speak my language because I don't speak theirs. (Not
    prejudice-nobody's paid me to learn any other language, yet.)
    Calvin Crumrine, Jan 23, 2004
  8. Chuck Ammon

    Thor Guest

    Yeah, but as a service, tech support personnel should be easy to understand
    by the people they are serving. It is a job where clear, concise
    communication is critical. I have spoken with some of the support staff in
    India on behalf of Dell customers, and many ofthem are indeed *very* hard to
    understand, and I too have had plenty of experience in working with people
    of differing national origins. At the very least you often have to ask the
    support person to repeat things, and I hear the same from lots of Dell
    customers these days. I have absolutely nothing against those of different
    nationalities, but I think it absurd to direct support calls to a staff with
    significant accents that make communication difficult for the customers,
    many of who already will have difficulties in understanding technical advice
    and suggestions. All it does is add one more unnecessary layer of difficulty
    and frustration to the process of getting support. The key thing to remember
    is that technical support is a service provided to the customers, and that
    price of that service is built into the cost of the unit. It is being paid
    for by the customer, and regardless of whether some customers are better at
    understanding people with heavy accents, or whether you believe they should
    listen more closely to get what they are saying, the point is that they
    shouldn't be asked to deal with that extra bit of frustration in the first
    place, since they are paying for the support. Just my $.02. But I guess I
    shouldn't complain. It just helps my business in the end, when people get
    sick of dealing with Dell, they come to me for a far better level of
    support. :)
    Thor, Jan 23, 2004
  9. Chuck Ammon

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    A Dell salesperson today tried to pitch us these basic machine specs:
    P4 2.8 ghz w/HTT
    512 megs of Dual Channel DDR RAM
    80 GB 7200 RPM HD
    17" flat panel LCD

    The use of this new lot of machines? MS Word, Excel, trivial office
    tasks that my Pentium 2 can still handle.

    Unfortunately, the higher ups are very happy with Dell (because none of
    them know a thing about computers, and don't research that other companys
    offer similar products at lower prices), so we'll probably end up getting
    about 15 of those machines for like $1250 a piece, instead of going with
    an even lower dell line that we could get:
    P4 2.4 ghz
    256 megs DDR RAM (single channel)
    40 GB 7200 RPM HD
    CDRW/DVD combo drive
    17" CRT
    for like $549 per unit.

    I wonder if I can rent out the office to host Q3A LAN parties, since
    everyone down there is going to have a high performance desktop with nice
    looking LCDs to type on.

    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: [email protected] (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
    DeMoN LaG, Jan 23, 2004
  10. Chuck Ammon

    Pete Guest

    My two cents,
    I own 4 dells laptops and desktops, I average one new machine a year. So in
    my experience with dell is every year the service gets worse. Not talking
    about CS workers with an accent,
    how about 3 hours on the phone,
    how about being sent the wrong parts,
    how about jumping from phone number to phone number to get a problem
    how about NOT being able to email a department.
    It's ok, fixing my dells have given me an education, my latest computers I
    built myself,
    better parts, same or less money, stable, no headaches.
    Thanks dell for the education, you lost a customer for good.
    Pete, Jan 23, 2004
  11. Chuck Ammon

    Beachcomber Guest

    And for the opposing opinion...

    You get what you pay for and Tech Support is very expensive for Dell
    or any company to provide. In a sense, those that use it add to the
    computer expense of those that use it infrequently or not at all. I
    would expect the company to provide some level of technical support
    and customer service (for returns, failures out-of-the-box, etc.), but
    if the customer doesn't know what they are doing, somebody
    someonewhere is going to have to pay. Dell products, in general, work
    pretty good right out of the box.

    I once worked in close proximity to an Apple support center and I
    would estimate that perhaps 90% of the calls were related to
    difficulties with non-Apple software, there was nothing really wrong
    with the machine, in most cases. Though they try, a support center
    can't really distinguish between those with legitimate problems and
    those with silly, trivial, and easily cured problems in advance of
    that personal phone call. They have to staff to take them all (if
    they care about keeping their phones answered. ) This is an expensive
    service to provide.

    I just received a new Dell 2.8 Mhz Dimension model and am very happy
    with it. The secret is to order all your extra drives, RAM, special
    mods, upfront and chances are you will get a working, fully functional
    computer out of the box. The original poster mentioned a video card
    which he had difficulty with. Was this a Dell video card? If not,
    then the proper avenue for tech support IMHO is the manufactuer of the
    card. I wouldn't expect dell Tech Support employees to know
    everything about every peripheral although I might use them if I had a
    very specific question about an interupt or something similar.

    Beachcomber, Jan 23, 2004
  12. Chuck Ammon

    Thor Guest

    It matters not. They advertise the service as part of their product,
    therefore it is their responsibility that the service is performed
    effectively. It is not a free courtesy, as the cost of this service is built
    into their products. They offer the service therefore it should be performed
    professionally, and effectively, otherwise they are not upholding their end
    of the bargain. And I doubt Dell sent out any surveys to their customers
    asking them if they would prefer talking to Indian support personnel rather
    than paying a few extra bucks on the PC. Not only did they piss off a lot of
    customers when they switched, but they also put a lot of Americans out of
    work when they exported the jobs for dirt-cheap labor in India.
    Thor, Jan 23, 2004
  13. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    Have you ever tried to understand a Brit?...or a true Irishman? lol

    And they speak ENGLISH!! lol

    Have a nice week...


    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
    Trent©, Jan 23, 2004
  14. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    You need to call them every year? What in the world for?


    Have a nice week...


    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
    Trent©, Jan 23, 2004
  15. Chuck Ammon

    Trent© Guest

    How do you know where you were connected?
    You don't need to install it in the machine to make it a backup
    They sell them at most computer stores. And garment stores will sell
    you velcro if need be. Just don't HANG the drive with it! lol
    How do you know this?
    I have an Indian friend...speaks the same way.
    That's not what he said.

    P.S. If you take out her old hard drive, she'll be stuck with a
    worthless box. Let her sell it for a couple of bucks...and figure out
    another way for her to do backups! lol

    Or set up a small LAN for her...and have her backup across the
    network. You can buy a 2-port router for under $20.

    Have a nice week...


    If the cheese isn't yours...its Nacho cheese, man!
    Trent©, Jan 23, 2004
  16. You make a good point about the 'typical' customer already having
    difficulties understanding technical advice. Perhaps the fact that I
    already understand the technical jargon is what allows me to focus more
    on what is said, getting past the accent.

    Thinking about it, I have had similar problems dealing with some medical
    personnel-where I *don't* know the jargon & often need to ask them not
    only to repeat what they said but then to explain after I do hear it

    I guess my reaction was due to the fact that I have had no problem
    understanding Dell support techs-but then I know what they're talking
    about already, I'm often just looking for an RMA when I call them.
    Calvin Crumrine, Jan 23, 2004
  17. Sorry, but I believe in the free enterprise system. If Americans can't
    compete with Indians in the labor market then IMO America should
    *expect* to lose jobs to India. Bad news, but supporting an inefficient
    market with isolationist tariffs-or other restrictions-is worse.
    Calvin Crumrine, Jan 23, 2004
  18. Mis-information from tech support (or sales which I assume is where this
    recommendation came from) is an entirely different matter than the
    problem understanding what is said. While I've found Dell tech support
    superior in this regard they certainly aren't trouble-free, and even the
    lack of problems that I've encountered with them might be due to the
    above-average diagnosis I provide when I place the call. It's possible
    that for the average customer Dell tech support might be average or
    worse in the quality of the information they provide-I really have no
    worthwhile opinion on that.
    Calvin Crumrine, Jan 23, 2004
  19. Chuck Ammon

    Night_Seer Guest

    But supporting Maquilladoras and depressed wages can be just as bad.
    The only people getting the benefits are those who profit. Many times
    it isn't about skill at all, its about higher profit margins.
    Night_Seer, Jan 23, 2004
  20. Is this true? Is it better for the poor to have no jobs or to have a job
    that pays a minimal wage?

    I assume that your statement "it isn't about skill at all, its about
    higher profit margins." (sic) implies that the
    Indians/Maquilladoras/etc. (let's call them Indians just so I don't need
    to type so much every time) have lower skills than Americans? Not in my
    experience, but let's assume that that's true-in that case the Indians
    either have lower skills than are necessary to do the job or the
    Americans have higher ones that are necessary. Should the business owner
    take a lower profit in order to supply unneeded/unused skills? Doesn't
    make sense to me so I assume that your point is that the Indians' skills
    are lower than is necessary to do the job. If that is the case I think I
    can assure you that they won't last long-either that or the company
    employing them won't last long.
    Calvin Crumrine, Jan 23, 2004
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