Deficit, minus $10 trillion swing under Bush

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by K Kesey McMurphy, Jan 22, 2005.

  1. Yes, President Bush has turned the US into the worst debtor nation in the
    history of the world. He has drive the economy right into the ditch. And why you
    ask would our fearless president do this? He did it so he could give 30% of his
    tax cuts to millionaires making 1.2 million per year, or $576 per hour in terms
    normal people can understand. Of the current $422+ billion dollar deficit, $270
    billion is specifically because of Bush tax cuts. 30%, or $81 Billion of this
    went to millionaires. So we are in essence borrowing money -- that our
    grandchildren will have to pay back -- to finance tax kickbacks to millionaires!

    So while high energy and health care costs are killing lower and middle class
    Americans, Bush chose to borrow $81 billion dollars to give to millionaires
    making $576 per hour. Can you imagine making that kind of money? You could work
    four hours and you have your house mortgage and car payment taken care of!! I'm
    really glad Bush chose to borrow our money to help these people. These
    millionaires were hurting big time!

    When GW Bush was elected 3 1/2 years ago, the projected 10 year "surplus" was
    predicted to be 4 or 5 trillion dollars (That's right, SURPLUS.) The prediction
    right now is for a "deficit" of over 2 trillion dollars 10 years from now. Here
    is the scary part. If Bush's tax cuts, which predominantly go to the super rich,
    are made permanent, the projected 10 year deficit is almost 5 trillion dollars.

    So this is a potential 10 trillion dollar negative swing with Bush in office!
    This idiot has driven the country right into a ditch, and in the process he is
    siphoning money from the middle and lower class to the ultra rich. If this
    continues, the only way the country will be able to keep it's head above water
    is to cuts all the safety nets of the middle and lower class, which is social
    security and Medicare.

    30% of the Bush tax cuts went to the upper 1%. This is actually better than it
    could have been. If all of Bush's tax cuts had been enacted as he wanted, fully
    45% of his tax cuts would have gone to the super wealthy.

    We are going into deep debt, borrowing money to finance tax cuts for
    millionaires. And these millionaires are rewarding us by sending money to tax
    free accounts in the Cayman Islands and shipping decent paying manufacturing
    jobs to China and decent paying IT jobs to India.

    Bush and Cheney are practicing bait and switch on a massive scale"...anew
    report from the Congressional Budget Office projects a $422-billiondeficitthis
    year and $2.3 trillion over the next decade, even if the currenttax
    cuts,technically set to expire over the next few years, are not extended.If they
    are,it projects a tab of $4.5 trillion. The $2.3 trillion is alreadyhigher than
    theoffice's previous estimate in March because of increasedspending by
    Congress,which is stuck with paying for, among other things,prolonged wars in
    Iraq andAfghanistan. In other words, this deficit, unlikeprevious ones, is not a
    blip,but a.....Even the CBO's $4.5-trillion deficit over 10 years is almost
    surelytoooptimistic - it's based on the assumption that funding for
    domesticprogramswill not rise faster than inflation and not keep pace with
    K Kesey McMurphy, Jan 22, 2005
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  2. As usual, you are not telling the whole story. - If you take a careful look
    at the form 1040 tax tables, you will see that the, "rich" people are paying
    more than their fair share of the nations tax burden. This has been true all
    of my adult life. (I am 69 years old) All Bush's tax cuts for the upper
    income group did was to partly alleviate this inequity. The higher income
    group still pay much more than their fair share. They don't use up any more
    of the nations police, fire, and military services than does anyone else,
    but they pay through the nose for it. Most of them got rich by risking their
    money to go into business, and the businesses they started create most of
    the nations jobs. If everyone were to just work for someone else, and never
    take a chance, this country would have died a long time ago.
    William Graham, Jan 22, 2005
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  3. K Kesey McMurphy

    Daniel Green Guest

    Billy. What do you consider to be a fair share? Someone making $20,000 a
    year and paying half in taxes? That's what we have today. I'm not just
    talking about just income taxes but payroll taxes, sales taxes, real estate
    taxes. It is the middle and lower classes who are paying MORE than their
    fair share. Also, this myth you hold dear about people risking their money
    to form businesses...Those people did not do so in a vaccuum. They depended
    on services provided by the government (roads and other infrastructure,
    railroad system, telephone system) all of which were paid for by tax
    dollars. So anyone who profits from the system should pay back into the
    system. That's fair.
    Daniel Green, Jan 22, 2005
  4. K Kesey McMurphy

    Stacey Guest

    Wow we agree on something. That's scary! Shame our opinion means nothing and
    people can't seem to understand what's happening, too late by the time "4
    more years" has past it might be too late.
    Stacey, Jan 22, 2005
  5. K Kesey McMurphy

    rafe bustin Guest

    Bull. The rich get corporate welfare in a million ways.

    Their servants and the workers in their factories drive
    to work on roads paid for by taxes. Taxpayers subsidized
    the stadium that made W's baseball team a big hit.
    W walked away from that deal $12 million richer.
    Taxpayers subsidized the government program that
    made Ross Perot a rich man.

    Your home mortgage deduction is a subsidy for bankers.

    Towns and cities all over the USA are subsidizing
    WalMart stores so that the Walton family can be the
    richest on the planet.

    US taxpayers have paid $170 Billion so far for our
    latest adventure in Iraq. Who benefits? Halliburton,
    Bechtel, Lockheed-Martin. Their CEOs make millions
    in salaries, while young men die in Fallujah.

    The corporate share of the US tax burden has been
    declining steadily for the last forty years.

    And in fact, the rich typically get much better
    government services than the poor, whether it be
    in road maintenance, police protection, workplace
    safety, schools, environmental enforcement, etc.

    How long did you stand in line to vote on Nov. 2?
    You probably breezed in and out in matter of minutes.

    Folks in downtown Cleveland waited hours and hours.

    The rich didn't make America great. Working
    Americans did -- all of them, in the millions --
    not just the millionaires.

    rafe b.
    rafe bustin, Jan 22, 2005
  6. I would be a lot more sympathetic to your position if I wasn't paying double
    taxes on my corporate income. But that's exactly what the dividend taxes
    amount to. Also, when I die, the government will get a portion of my estate
    before it gets distributed to my kids. This is money that has already been
    taxed once, so it also constitutes double taxation. It won't affect me and
    my kids very much, because I am not that rich. But for those with estates
    that are significantly over a million dollars, it can be quite a bite. The
    point is, there is no justification for taxing anyone twice. It's like if
    you had to pay taxes on your income, and then, when you gave some of it to
    your wife to buy groceries with, she had to pay taxes on it again. You
    wouldn't like that would you? - Well, that's the way I feel when the
    corporations I own pay income taxes, and then when they distribute what's
    left over to me, I have to pay taxes on it again. the only thing that has
    happened to that money is it has been moved from the companies account to
    mine. Also, when I saved for my retirement, my kids went without some things
    because our spendable income was a little less. (about 10%) Now, when I die,
    those kids should get that money, because they were deprived of it when I
    first saved it. Their peers got more things than they got, because their
    fathers didn't save a dime. Now, when their fathers are, "poor", (compared
    with me) the government hits my estate up for taxes again on that money. It
    should go to my kids, who didn't get to spend it the first time around. In
    many ways we, "rich" get screwed by the system, and the liberal Bush bashers
    just sweep that under the rug. I am damn tired of the liberal robin hood
    give away programs. It is very easy for the government to spend my money on
    anything and everything that they think will buy them more votes. It is like
    a breath of fresh air to get someone like G. Bush in office every 20 years
    or so, who will help to slow down the drain on my pocketbook a little bit. I
    made my money by saving it straight from a standard, average engineers
    salery. I didn't steal it from anybody. Anyone I worked with could have done
    the same thing that I did, but they spent their money like there was no
    tomorrow. Now, I just want the government to leave me alone and let me enjoy
    my retirement without having to pay for all those hangers on. - Is that too
    much to ask?
    William Graham, Jan 22, 2005
  7. K Kesey McMurphy

    Pete S. Guest

    Seems only right that he should do that, after all, he screwed up
    every other company he ran.......

    Pete S.
    Pete S., Jan 22, 2005
  8. K Kesey McMurphy

    Darrell Guest

    What does this have to do with photography, video or woodworking?
    Darrell, Jan 22, 2005
  9. K Kesey McMurphy

    Savidge4 Guest

    What do you consider to be a fair share? Someone making $20,000 a

    When you talk about someone making 20K a year and spending half on assorted
    taxes... it brings a tear to my eye. the truth is these taxes you speak of
    "payroll taxes, sales taxes, real estate taxes" Are all taxes that a "rich
    person" pays more of. A rich person makes more money so pays more Payroll tax,
    a rich person buys more expensive items so pays more in sales tax, and a rich
    person lives in a more expensive home and pays more property tax. The 20K
    person you speak of if the do thier taxes correctly will get most if not all of
    thier federal withholding back, the percent of sales tax is the same regardless
    of being rich or poor, and for property tax... at 20K this person is
    renting and not paying that tax.

    And this twisted sense of risk taking... if you really look how tax is
    structured you will see that in most states there is a tax on GAS to pay for
    new roads and infrastructure. so the guy thats out there taking risk and
    moving product is Paying his share of these expenses. You buy what 20 gallons
    of gas a week? how much does a local hub of UPS purchase in a week? Believe
    me they pay!
    Savidge4, Jan 22, 2005
  10. On a sunny day (Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:59:18 -0800) it happened "K Kesey
    inflation will bail him out.
    When the US dollar goes to 0 Euro, he has no debt at all :)
    Jan Panteltje, Jan 22, 2005
  11. Those 10 year surplus projections from early 2001 weren't worth the
    paper they were printed on. It is simply too complicated a problem to
    correctly forecast the fiscal situation more than 6 months down the
    road, and even that is usually wrong, often by a substantial amount.
    This is not a partisan statement, it is just a fact of reality.

    People who think there was some $6 trillion surplus out there which
    Bush magically squandered really don't have a clue. Congress would
    have spent EVERY SINGLE PENNY of that surplus on useless government
    programs. Believing otherwise is delusional.

    Personally, I really don't care if Democrats spend the next 4 years
    beating up on Bush. He is not running again, so it doesn't matter,
    other than making Democrats look like spoiled children who aren't
    getting their way.

    Here is a suggestion to Democrats if they want to regain politcal
    relevance. Think of some policies that don't involve higher taxes or
    bigger government. You are smart people, I am sure you could do it if
    you tried.
    BrianEWilliams, Jan 22, 2005

  12. All they have to do to win next time is crawl father to the right than
    the Republicans. Then they might be called neo-replublicans, or
    communists by the actual republicans, but evangelicals will probably
    vote for them and aparently that is the only vote you really need in the
    Chris Phillipo, Jan 22, 2005
  13. K Kesey McMurphy

    Crownfield Guest

    using sample values...

    a 50% bracket? bull shit.
    federal tax rates run ~10% up to 35% wealthy pay 300% of the minimum
    state income tax is about 5% up to 9% wealthy pay 180% of the minimum

    sales tax is a fixed rate in your state,. ~8%

    real estate taxes are based on value, so also are fixed.
    the more value you have, the bigger tax payment. ~0.5%

    the lower incomes are more taxed? how did you decide this?
    a simple check of the tax tables seems to disagree with you.

    how about everyone pay 15% of what they earn? fair?
    everyone gets taxed exactly the same share. fairly.

    the only problem, is if everyone pays the same equal share,
    the poor find their tax goes up 50%,
    and the rich find their tax goes down 62%.

    still want everyone to pay the same tax rate?
    Crownfield, Jan 22, 2005
  14. K Kesey McMurphy

    Crownfield Guest

    so do the poor.

    that is such a clueless thoughtless statement.
    you should pay another 5% on top for thinking like that.
    how much tax did w pay on that?
    what tax bracket is he in?
    that is such a clueless thoughtless statement.
    you should pay still another 5% on top for thinking like that.
    that is such a clueless thoughtless statement.
    you should pay another 5% on top for thinking like that.
    Crownfield, Jan 22, 2005
  15. K Kesey McMurphy

    Alan Browne- Guest

    Hint 1: this post is way off topic.
    Hint 2: it is cross posted way off topic to 5 groups.

    Don't get sucked in by troll posts.
    Don't answer idiots who love to feed trolls.

    /| /| | |
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    Alan Browne-, Jan 22, 2005
  16. It's too bad Bush didn't spend some of that money on a cure for stupid
    people who post their political tantrums on a site devoted to digital
    Dennis D. Carter
    Dennis D. Carter, Jan 22, 2005
  17. K Kesey McMurphy

    Alan Browne- Guest

    /| /| | |
    ||__|| | Please do not |
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    / \ | Trolls |
    / \ \|_____________________|
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    / \|_|_|/ | _||
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    * / \_ /- | | |
    * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
    Alan Browne-, Jan 22, 2005
  18. K Kesey McMurphy

    Alan Browne- Guest

    /| /| | |
    ||__|| | Please do not |
    / O O\__ | feed the |
    / \ | Trolls |
    / \ \|_____________________|
    / _ \ \ ||
    / |\____\ \ ||
    / | | | |\____/ ||
    / \|_|_|/ | _||
    / / \ |____| ||
    / | | | --|
    | | | |____ --|
    * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
    *-- _--\ _ \ | ||
    / _ \\ | / `'
    * / \_ /- | | |
    * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
    Alan Browne-, Jan 22, 2005
  19. K Kesey McMurphy

    Alan Browne- Guest

    /| /| | |
    ||__|| | Please do not |
    / O O\__ | feed the |
    / \ | Trolls |
    / \ \|_____________________|
    / _ \ \ ||
    / |\____\ \ ||
    / | | | |\____/ ||
    / \|_|_|/ | _||
    / / \ |____| ||
    / | | | --|
    | | | |____ --|
    * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
    *-- _--\ _ \ | ||
    / _ \\ | / `'
    * / \_ /- | | |
    * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
    Alan Browne-, Jan 22, 2005
    Jan Panteltje, Jan 22, 2005
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