Dangers in copying pics from camera to computer

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by macca, Feb 1, 2006.

  1. macca

    ASAAR Guest

    You may be mis-assuming, depending on what the definitions of "it"
    is. It's possible that Al was referring to plugging in the CF card
    and then removing "it", the card, not the card reader. I read the
    entire message and someone else said something about 'removing'
    hardware, but it doesn't seem clear that that's what Al does. :)
     
    ASAAR, Feb 5, 2006
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  2. macca

    Bill Funk Guest

    I never said that.
    The manual makes no mention of using the computer's USB system to
    charge the battery. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but there's no
    documentation of such.
    There's not even a warning to only use a primary USB connection
    (directly from a computer's USB port) or ensuring that a powered hub
    is used, which would, I would think, would be necessary if charging
    from the computer's USB system was enabled, or relied upon.
    As above, a need for a powered USB system.
    No, just *any* electricity. No sarcasm.
     
    Bill Funk, Feb 5, 2006
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  3. macca

    Bill Funk Guest

    That's 500mw max. From a parimary USB port.
    Use a non-powered hub, and that number goes way down.
    Every other device that draws power from the USB port has warnings
    about this, as far as I've seen.
     
    Bill Funk, Feb 5, 2006
  4. macca

    Bill Funk Guest

    We got an el-cheapo Ipod for my wife. It does indeed charge through
    the USB port, from the computer. It's designed to do that, and the
    manual is very explicit in this.
    I have no idea of how much battery is in that Ipod, but I seriously
    doubt it matches a camera's battery in capacity, and charging needs.
    Charging through a USB system would be very slow, if even possible. It
    requires a primary port, or a powered hub. Considering the very basic
    nature of these cameras, it would seem reasonable to me that asking
    the normal user of these cameras to understand the concept of making
    sure the USB port used would be powered is asking too much.
    Remember, too, that the original claim for USB powering said that such
    cameras (and the camera in question in particular) had no other way to
    charge. As Rob J responded to Mark H:
    ==
    "> Feel free to provide evidence that just one camera exists that will
    Yes, there are some cameras that charge themselves from the USB, these
    are not equipped with any other form of battery charging for a
    proprietary battery."
    ==
    The last part has been dropped, as no evidence of such a camera could
    be provided, but there's also, so far, no evidence of the first part,
    either, only conjecture not backed up by documentation.
    Is it possible? Yes. But, IMO, such a camera would need this well
    documented, along witha warning to make sure a *powered* USB
    connection were used.
    It's obvious that ROB J was trying hard to say that there are cameras
    that are designed to charge their battery when connected to a computer
    via USB. I don't see it happening.
     
    Bill Funk, Feb 5, 2006
  5. It's 500 mA at 5 V, which is 2.5 W. Still well below your typical "wall
    wart" camera supply at 10+ W, but enough to recharge a battery slowly.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Feb 5, 2006
  6. macca

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Yes, but be aware that some devices don't limit their charging current
    so will cause the USB port to require a reset. For example, on my laptop
    my Palm will charge off the USB port fine, but it's extended battery
    pack will cause the port to require a reset.
     
    -=rjh=-, Feb 5, 2006
  7. macca

    Rob J Guest

    Some cameras use proprietary USB ports which have extra contacts on
    them. Connecting to these extra contacts is actually not using the USB
    port at all.
     
    Rob J, Feb 5, 2006
  8. macca

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Well, my nephew was the Ipod user, who asked if he could recharge it
    overnight from one of my computers, so I had him plug it into my laptop
    (which is connected to the AC power), and it recharged overnight. I
    never saw the manual for it, but would hope they mentioned plugging it
    directly into a computer (all such USB ports ARE powered), rather than
    an external USB box, which may, or may not, be powered.
     
    Ron Hunter, Feb 6, 2006
  9. macca

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Poorly designed USB port hardware. This value should be limited!
     
    Ron Hunter, Feb 6, 2006
  10. macca

    KewlKiwi Guest

    MarkH replied to:
    Yep, the manual calls it a "Mini USB Port / Power Adapter Port"

    Bear with me here... perhaps you can explain just how that is different
    from a 'normal' USB socket on a camera - most of which, if not all, have
    access to the standard USB 5volts available on one of the 4 or 5 pins.

    IOW, how is the socket on my camera 'not just a USB socket'?
    (other than the name it's given in the manual)

    What, physically or electrically, is not 'normal' about it?


    We've probably gone about as far as we can go with this discussion., the
    only way to further it would be either for me to flatten the battery and
    do a proper test (or rather two tests, one with the charger and one with
    the USB supply from the computer) - or for you to buy one and do such
    tests.
    Neither is really practical, although if I still have it at next
    Christmas I could do the tests then.

    Heh! dont they all!

    True. However, in the absence of a warning against it, and the fact that
    it does actually work (for me anyway) then I'd tend to think that's
    simply because it's a 'given' that the writers didn't think necessary to
    explicitly state.


    Hmm, no - but you did express... surprise? incredulality? about such a
    possibility when it first came up - and asked for the names of any such
    cameras (which brings us round full circle :)

    Which applies to this one is too I guess.
    Except there isn't such for _this_ camera.
    Well, as I said, there's no warning about such a possibility.

    Sure, I can agree with that. It is an 'el cheapo'.
    Hmm
    , not sure that I ever said anything to imply I thought it's a great
    feature, or even that it's a 'feature' at all! Just that it works.
    Yep, it came up on special just as I was looking around for a cheap
    still camera for work. The fact that's it's also a camcorder, web-cam,
    voice recorder, MP3 player and flash-drive is handy too. Pity it doesn't
    have an FM radio though.
    But, for what I wanted it for, the Fuji would be overkill - as well as
    being a bit too big/heavy to carry around in my shirt pocket all day.
    It cost me $197, so the extra $42 would have been wasted.

    Quite possibly, if I'd needed a camera for work and *also* for more
    general purpose use, then I'd have gone for something better too - but I
    already have a good one for that.

    Bob
     
    KewlKiwi, Feb 6, 2006
  11. macca

    KewlKiwi Guest

    I was just surprised at your surprise [grin] that such a thing is
    possible.

    Yep, would have been much simpler all round.


    But it would not be the first manual to leave
    Oh yes, that's for sure.

    Bob
     
    KewlKiwi, Feb 6, 2006
  12. macca

    KewlKiwi Guest

    Bill Funk replied to:
    I guess this would be a good time for ROB J to come up with his own
    camera (or list of). Over to you Rob!

    Bob
     
    KewlKiwi, Feb 6, 2006
  13. macca

    KewlKiwi Guest

    Dave Martindale replied to:
    Especially if, as in my case, it's just 'topped up' every night while
    the day's photos are transferred. The NP60 battery in the DSE camera is
    only 3.7 volts @ 1amp, so a 5v 500ma supply could charge it up quite
    well if left on long enough.

    Bob
     
    KewlKiwi, Feb 6, 2006
  14. macca

    KewlKiwi Guest


    The camera in this case has a 5 pin mini-B port and I dont even use the
    cable that came with it, but one that belongs to my wife's Cannon.
    So in this case, I'd say the port is standard.

    Bob
     
    KewlKiwi, Feb 6, 2006
  15. macca

    MarkH Guest

    OK. On many cameras there is a USB port which is exclusively used for
    communication with a PC. On your camera it is a dual purpose port that
    can be used for communication with a PC, but it can also be used for
    charging from either the PC or from a power adaptor.
    It is also a charging socket.
    The fact that it is connected to the charging circuitry.
    Some manuals are filled with every conceivable piece of information that
    you could want for the product.
    That is some pretty dangerous assuming! There are many things that
    manuals don't say you shouldn't do, that doesn't mean that you should do
    it. Having said that, it doesn't seem like you have any choice - once
    you connect to the USB port of a PC your camera is automatically
    charging (if I understand you correctly).
    There are many reasons why camera manufacturers can't or won't have
    their cameras charging from the USB socket of a PC and your camera is so
    far the only one I know of to do so. So I expressed surprise, why is
    that so hard to understand? Your DSE camera is still the only one that I
    have heard of that charges from the PC's USB connection.
    The Fuji is about the same size, but probably a little heavier. But as
    you bought your camera at 33% less that the standard price you got a
    reasonable deal, at the standard price it would be nuts to buy the DSE
    camera.
    Well as I said before: as long as the camera does what you need it to
    then it is all good. Sometimes better/worse does not matter and good
    enough is all you are asking of a product, if it is good enough for the
    purpose that you buy it for then these is no problem.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 5-September-05)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Feb 6, 2006
  16. macca

    MarkH Guest

    I was not surprised that it is possible, just surprised that someone
    actually did it. I have seen chargers for AA batteries that plug into a
    USB socket, my only question is why? (unless you have a laptop that you
    could use when there is no power source)

    A camera can have its battery charged by solar panels, but I know of no
    camera that comes with solar panels for charging the battery. I don't
    doubt that it is possible, but would be VERY surprised if there was a
    camera that actually did come with a solar panel for charging the battery.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 5-September-05)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Feb 6, 2006
  17. macca

    Rob J Guest

    It probably has extra contacts and therefore isn't a standard USB at
    all.
     
    Rob J, Feb 6, 2006
  18. macca

    Rob J Guest

    A USB connector on a PC has only 4 pins.

    Panasonic cameras use a special USB connector with the video out signals
    on it. The extra contacts have nothing to do with USB.
     
    Rob J, Feb 6, 2006
  19. macca

    Lionel Guest

    Doing a "Detect new hardware" from Control Panel would probably work.
    But of course you shouldn't be using the "Safely Remove Hardware" on the
    *card reader*. The right way to ensure that your memory card is
    correctly synced before removal is to go into Explorer or My Computer
    (or, in fact, anything that displays drive letters), *right-click* on
    the drive letter for your memory card, then select "eject" from the
    menu. If the light on the card reader isn't flashing, you can then
    safely pop out the memory card.
     
    Lionel, Feb 6, 2006
  20. macca

    Jim F B Guest

    Doesn't all this prove that it's far better for most people to stick with
    transferring pics from the camera, particularly if you never transfer large
    numbers of pics at any one time?
     
    Jim F B, Feb 6, 2006
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