Crossover cables and problems

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by JD, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. JD

    JD Guest

    Hello Experts,

    I have an Advent computer (now 18 months old) and, after 18 months of
    use, it went belly up, or almost. My Sony monitor began to flicker. I
    also had a Samsung laptop and I was able to connect the Sony to it.
    There as no flickering then, so the problem was in the Advent's motherboard.

    My first thought was to use one of my older video cards but I wasn't
    sure that I had the software. Besides, I had thought about using a
    video card in Advent with a crossover cable but, when I found that
    crossover cable, at both ends, it had a pin connection - 2 groups of 9x9
    pins and another spade-like "pin." The connection at the Samsung and the
    Advent was 3 rows of 5 pin holes. That crossover cable had 2 "lumps"
    between the ends with DV0040. On the cable was written "AWM E101344
    style 20276 VW-1,80deg C,30V, DVI digital single link, ----- etc.

    Is there a crossover cable with 15 pins (3 rows of 5) on each end?

    Could you suggest a way out of this mess?

    Thanks

    JVH
     
    JD, Aug 27, 2012
    #1
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  2. JD

    JD Guest

    JD, Aug 27, 2012
    #2
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  3. Cross over cable? You do not need a cross over cable, that's for an ethernet
    connection -- and I don't think you need a cross over cable for anything
    anymore.

    You can get any software you need from the video card's manufacturer
    website, but video is not that big a deal and most video needs can be
    handled by the OS.

    In any case, video cables are standardized, so there are only two, and they
    are not interchangable. The video cable is defined by the shape, any cable
    that has the right shape is the right cable. You can go to pretty much any
    computer store and get a new video card, or just a cable. You tell the
    person, "I need a video cable for my monitor." Then you either say, "Thank
    you," or "I need the other one."

    It appears by your description that you have a DVI (Digital Video Interface)
    cable. This is the newest video interface, and I think it is not very
    popular. I have a couple of these cables, but I have no hardware to plug
    them into. That is, they came with monitors, but the computers do not accept
    them so I have to use the older RGB style cable.

    Are you trying to make the DVI cable fit a connector that is not a DVI
    connector? There is no adaptor for that. You must have a connector that
    supports the cable, else you cannot use the cable. Typically, the DVI cable
    can be removed at both ends -- the monitor end and the computer end -- and
    there is another connector on the monitor that supports the other style of
    cable (the RGB cable).

    You need a card that the cable can be connected to, and what you need is not
    a cross over cable.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Aug 29, 2012
    #3
  4. JD

    JD Guest

    Thanks Jeff for your efforts
    I discovered that. I found what seemed to be the right cable - a
    crossover cable with the 15 pins on each end but when I connected the
    laptop to the computer, the screen on the laptop went black. Waaahhh!!!
    Sob :-(
    Unfortunately there was no video card. What was there was built into the
    Foxconn motherboard. I have 2 ATI Rage cards: Rage ATI 128 but the card
    only fills about half of the slot. Could that work? The other card
    is a Radeon 9000 64M DDR TVO but, again, it would only fill half of the
    slot. I was able to download the Rage software but I don't know yet if
    that will work.
    I couldn't tell the name of the cable that I took for a crossover. What
    was written on it was: "AWM E101344 style 20276 VW-1,80deg C,30V, DVI
    digital single link, ....", which was not very enlightening. Does that
    seem to be a crossover? There were 2 "lumps" on the cable, equally spaced.
    I have a similar situation with cables.
    The cable I have is a perfect fit at both connections, each end has 15
    pins in 3 rows of 5 holes.
    I agree now. It won't be too bad if the motherboard was not messed up.

    Thanks again :)
     
    JD, Aug 29, 2012
    #4
  5. JD

    JD Guest

    Hello again Jeff,

    It seems that my last post got lost. Here is my latest attempt:
    have a sAMSUNG N150 and an Advent N150. The Advent Foxconn motherboard
    now gives a flickering in my Sony monitor. I attached the monitor cable
    to the N150 and there was no flickering, so the problem is with the
    motherboard.

    Now I want to connect these two so that I can see from one computer into
    the other
    and vice versa. It seemed that I needed to setup a video card in the
    Advent and I
    chose an ATI Rage 123 and had a struggle to put it in place. The slot in
    the
    motherboard was too close for comfort to the rear wall of the case and I
    had to
    squeeze the Rage into the slot. The Rage has 15 pin holes just like the
    N150, so
    I need a straight? cable to connect these two computers.

    Next I would like to know if any program, apart from the Rage one, needs
    to be
    used for this system to work.

    Thanks again :)
     
    JD, Aug 30, 2012
    #5
  6. JD

    Paul Guest

    I haven't seen a model number for the Advent yet. I don't think it's N150,
    it's probably something else.

    The Advent uses a Foxconn motherboard, and knowing the model number on
    the Foxconn motherboard would help as well.

    There are at least three video card slot types that could be present.
    PCI, AGP, PCI-Express. Each has a different offset from motherboard
    connector to the back of the case. If a card doesn't fit, chances are
    you've got a mismatch, and are attempting to use the wrong card type.

    That's why, before "ramming and jamming", we'd like as much model
    number info (or pictures) as you can manage, so that we can see
    what you're attempting to do.

    The Rage 128 would likely be AGP. I think I might have one of
    those here. Says here, it's a 3.3V AGP video card. If you jam that
    in a 1.5V only motherboard, damage could result. So don't be
    in too much of a rush just yet. The keying on the card, is intended
    to prevent mating of inappropriate combinations (such as a 3.3v card
    that will burn out a 1.5V only slot).

    http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

    To "see into a computer", you can use tools like Teamviewer, to
    make a remote connection over the network. So if the computers
    both connected to a router or Ethernet switch (i.e. LAN connections
    all working), then you can make a remote connection and view the
    virtual desktop on a second computer. If the real video on
    the broken computer is flickering, the virtual image obtained
    by remote operation would be solid. But, if you wanted to play
    video games, it just wouldn't perform worth a damn. You can do
    simple things with a setup like that (email, Microsoft Office),
    but for real work, you need a proper monitor connection locally
    to the computer. So working on your Rage 128 project is a step
    in the right direction. Remoting into a computer, is a pathetic
    second choice.

    It's a matter now, of determining the Foxconn motherboard model
    number, so we can figure out what kind of video slot its got.
    And using a picture of the case, we could determine if the case
    is regular width (7" to 8" or so) or whether this is a slim or
    tiny computer. For some of those, you need a "low profile" video
    card. And in extreme cases (the smallest ATX case you can find),
    only certain low profile cards fit, and even fractions of an inch
    count on those. So if the Advent case is super-tiny, finding a
    video card can be a pain.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Aug 30, 2012
    #6
  7. JD

    JD Guest

    Great to hear from you again Paul :)
    I just noticed the info on the Foxconn motherboard A74ML-K and another
    UY31020023154
    There are spaces for 3 cards. The lower 2 are plain and identical. Both
    have 2 slots, the one towards the back of the computer is 2.5" long and
    the one towards the front is 0.5" long.

    The top slot has a yellowish color with a 4" long slot. The Rage card
    does not fill the complete slot. There is the usual hook device at the
    front end of the slot.
    This is where the Rage 128 card info is located:

    C:\ATI\support\WXP_R128_6_13_3279

    and the prog is: WXPR1286133279.exe
    Paul, I wish I had the time to get right into Teamviewer. Some day,
    hopefully :)
    Case is 7" wide.
    Front to back is 17"
    Height 14" to 15"

    For some of those, you need a "low profile" video
    The interior is not so tiny. It's as big as any case I have used before.
    Thaaannnkkk you Paul :)
     
    JD, Aug 30, 2012
    #7
  8. JD

    Paul Guest

    http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-186-188-Z03?$S640W$

    ( from http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186188 )

    That's a PCI Express slot. You don't put the Rage 128 in there!
    The Rage 128 is a ten year old or so, card.

    The two slots below that are regular PCI. While they make video cards
    with PCI connectors (I have one), that's not a recommended solution.
    The bus bandwidth available on a PCI video card, is so low, it causes
    the screen to stutter occasionally (happened to me :-( ). You want
    that big PCI Express x16 slot for a video card.

    You're going to need a newer video card of some sort. Time to dig
    out your wallet.

    *******

    At least that picture answers another question I had. Your chipset heatsink
    has no fan on it. So it's not like the chipset fan stopped spinning
    and the chip overheated. It didn't have a 40mm fan on it to begin with.
    The chip is 740G. I can't find a power number, but the suggestions are
    it's reasonably low powered by Northbridge standards.

    *******

    You can get a video card for around $30 or so, in PCI Express format.

    HD5450 family. Notice it has a VGA and a DVI connector on the faceplate.
    You'll be using the VGA at the top of the faceplate, for your 15 pin (three row)
    connector and cable. This particular card type, uses very little DC power,
    and you can put cards of this type, into machines with just about any power
    supply in them. Maybe a mini-ITX with PICO converter would have a problem,
    but no regular ATX case should have a problem powering a puny thing like this :)
    And graphically, it's probably a bit stronger than the 740G, but not by much.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131339

    Paul
     
    Paul, Aug 30, 2012
    #8
  9. I believe that what you really want is a video card to insert into the
    motherboard, and then plug the monitor into the new video card.

    You can jump through hoops if you want so that you have to use the laptop
    and the desktop together to get a picture on the monitor, but if you spent
    less than $100, you could simply plug a better video card than you had into
    the motherboard, and be home free.

    There is no such thing as a slot that is too close for comfort. They DESIGN
    this stuff to fit into the space available, and the space is very small
    sometimes, but it (whatever 'it" is) fits.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Aug 30, 2012
    #9
  10. JD

    JD Guest

    I found a video card that I had not used for about a year. It is a
    Gigabyte AGP 8X. Other information the card is: FC Gigabyte GV-N66128DP.
    and also on the card: SN0530000165, and 506242 and 00706 PT ICT FQC Lot
    No. 6868-0 H4 506 2428. It also has a very big gold colored cooling fan
    on the card.

    I installed the Gigabyte AGP in the Advent computer and used a cable to
    connect it via DVD-D connections to the Sony monitor. That cable has two
    lumps in it and I am curious to know what that means. A second
    connection on that AGP card has a 15 hole female socket, the same as the
    one on the laptop. I also have a cable with 15 male pins at each end
    and it has two lumps in that similar cable. Another reason why?
    What I would like to have the setup so that I could see into each
    computer from the other one.
    Agreed. I had to do some filing on the L-shaped bracket to get it into
    place.

    Not much success so far.

    Now I am exhausted..........My thanks to all :)
     
    JD, Aug 31, 2012
    #10
  11. You should not have to file ANYTHING. If you need tools, other than a
    screwdriver to put the lock-down screw in place -- then you are doing it
    wrong.

    The lumps at each end of the cable are choke coils. They help to reduce or
    eliminate electrical noise in the cable. They are of absolutely no
    consequence to you. There are alternate means of doing the same job, so you
    don't care that they are there or not. Well, if they are there, then you do
    not want to remove them, but if they are not there on one of your cables and
    are there on the other, then the one where they are missing accomplishes the
    same task a different way. BOTTOM LINE, ignore them.

    It is common that video cards are really game cards, and the extra port is
    for a joystick, or other hardware of an equivelent nature. Again, you do not
    care.

    To look into each computer would require a video card that is specifically
    designed for such a thing. You would use an F-key to switch from one to the
    other. (I assume you would use an F-key, I have never actually used such a
    system, but I have seen them.) You should be able to walk into any computer
    store and tell them that you have a desktop machine and a laptop machine,
    and you want a solution that lets you operate both machines from the same
    monitor and keyboard (and mouse).

    Alternatively, you can create a Home Network with your router and the
    Windows Workgroups Wizard, and then make the folders in both machines into
    Shared Folders. They do not advise it, but you can set the entire machine as
    a Shared Folder. This would give you access to all files on Machine A when
    using Machine B, and vise versa if both machines are shared in their
    entirety. I'm not sure if you can invoke programs on Machine B from Machine
    A, but you can share the files -- documents and pictures, and so on -- if
    both machines have the same programs installed.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Aug 31, 2012
    #11
  12. JD

    JD Guest

    Thanks again Jeff. You gave me some good news - the "lumps."

    Now the situation is :
    Sony monitor is connected to the AGP card with DVD-D.
    Laptop is connected to AGP via 15 pin plugs. If this connection is made,
    the laptop screen goes black.

    The CD for the AGP card is in the Advent's DVD player.
    I doubt if anything can get moving without logging in and this CD
    starting up. The monitor won't become active until the software for
    the AGP card is installed.

    My brain has gone blurry. Next step please????????


    Thx :)









    However, when the Advent
     
    JD, Aug 31, 2012
    #12
  13. DVD-D? What the hell is that? I believe what you have is a DVI, Digital
    Video Input or Digital Video Interface, but not a DVD-D.

    UNPLUG THE F---ING LAPTOP and work with one thing at a time.

    Get the desktop machine working THEN see what you need to do to make the
    laptop work from the same screen -- which is silly, if you want my opinion.
    You might also have the laptop connected via the gaming port, but I'm not
    sure that is possible because such a cable would never ever be needed except
    for people like you. The gaming port is for an INPUT device such as a joy
    stick, and there would be no reason to make a cable for this because the joy
    sticks are made with a cable that is a pigtail coming out the back. They
    don't make joy sticks that need the cable to be connected at each end, such
    as some monitors are made.

    Keep in mind that the connection on the video card is an OUTPUT, so when you
    connect the output of the laptop to the output of the desktop, the results
    will BY DEFINITION become unreliable. You are trying to pry your way into
    the laptop via the video port, which I believe is impossible. You would be
    far better off, and your checkbook would appreciate the effort, if you
    simply set some of the folders as Shared Folders, and then established a
    Workgroup.

    You clearly need a specialty card of some sort to access both the laptop and
    the desktop by using the same monitor. Clearly you will not have the
    hardware needed to do this OR YOU WOULD KNOW that you had it and would not
    be asking us here. Honestly, I cannot recall anybody doing what you are
    trying to do, but my universe is pretty small in the grand scheme of things.
    However small my universe is, it is light years larger than yours.

    So, tackle one thing at a time. Get the video re-established on your desktop
    so you can use it. THEN set about to expand the capabilities so that the
    desktop can see inside the laptop. I believe the best way to do this is
    free, and you do it with a network -- workgroup -- in your home. If you have
    high-speed internet through a service such as Time Warner Cable or Verizon
    FiOS (many others, but these are common examples) then you will have a
    wireless router. If you have a wireless router, then you can create a
    workgroup without spending a dime for more hardware.

    You need the desktop to be connected to the router via a CAT5 cable, and the
    laptop connects via the wireless adaptor that is built in. You set certain
    folders as a shared resource, and you are off and runnning. Open a file,
    make your edits, save the file to a shared folder. You can then walk across
    the house to the other computer and open the same file, make more edits,
    save to the same shared folder.

    Any software that you own can be installed into your own desktop AND laptop.
    You cannot install into your brother's machine because that is a copyright
    violation. But you can install into your own machine and an alternate
    machine that is also your own.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Aug 31, 2012
    #13
  14. JD

    JD Guest

    Thanks Jeff. You have put me in my place :)
    OK Jeff, but what I am writing with now is the laptop. The Advent is NOT
    working. The Advent's built in video card is dead.
    If I knew how to fix the Advent I would not bother with the laptop. But
    it is useful when the desktop goes belly up.
    If you mean the 15 pin port on the laptop, I have connected it to the
    Sony and it works very well.
    Ok then. I'll remove the card. The manual I have for the Advent
    is not worth a spit.
    I have removed the card.
    At the moment I have only one interest - to get the Advent running. I'll
    work on combining the two computers but that is in the future.

    No interest in workgroups. My present need appears to be a new motherboard.

    Thanks Jeff for your patience.
     
    JD, Sep 1, 2012
    #14
  15. It was not my goal to put you in your place. I believe a HUGE part of why
    you are having so much trouble is that you do not know what is what, and the
    people at the store cannot understand what you are trying to do because you
    ask for a cross over cable -- which is an actual cable, but will not do what
    you need -- and then say you use a DVD-D cable to connect your monitor --
    but there is no such thing as a DVD-D cable.


    One more time, the laptop and the monitor both work. We get it. Well, I get
    it.

    The desktop has a built in video card that has stopped working. It is
    entirely possible that the entire motherboard has stopped working, but we
    know without a doubt that the video portion is toast.

    You verify the video problem with a video card. Plug the card into the
    motherboard and see if the monitor works. If the video card needs drivers to
    install it in the system, then you have to use the laptop to go to the
    Website of the card-maker and get the drivers from their Support Page. This
    is all free because you already have the card.


    I don't understand WHY you removed the video card. I understand that the
    monitor worked in the past, and died. You have a video card in a box in the
    back of your closet. Install the card, use your OTHER computer to go to the
    Website for the card-maker and download the driver files to a thumb drive,
    then insert the thumb drive into the Advent so you can install the latest
    drivers. You should have BASIC FUNCTIONALITY without the card-maker's driver
    files, so you ought to be able to turn the Advent on and get something out
    of it.

    I am under the impression that the Advent has a built in video card that the
    monitor was plugged into. This capability went south, so you need to replace
    the video that is built in with video that is add-on. This is not a big
    deal, it happens all of the time. Some built in video is too slow, so gamers
    will install the add-on video card to improve video response with the games
    they want to play. Your goal is not games, but you still need video, so the
    add-on card is what you need -- unless your problem is the motherboard
    itself is in the tank.

    I also thought you said the monitor worked on the Advent with the add-on
    video card, but that when you plug the laptop to the same card, all goes
    black. You cannot connect the laptop to the same card that the monitor is
    connected to. You also cannot connect laptop to anything else via the video
    port EXCEPT an external monitor. You cannot see inside of the laptop through
    the video port on the laptop, you can only direct the display of the laptop
    to an external monitor.



    A workgroup is merely two or more computers that can talk to each other
    using a Windows networking solution. You can also establish things like
    shared printers. You might have a black-only laser printer in one room, and
    an inkjet printer in another that does millions of colors. The inkjet pages
    cost upwards of a dime apiece AND IF those pages are a report that could be
    rendered in one color then that is a very expensive page because a laser
    printer pages cost almost a penny. If you have kids in school that have to
    print stuff, or you only need to see stuff in one color, then the laser
    printer is a huge cost savings, and the printer can be in another room from
    the person needing to print something. If you are at the store buying ink
    cartridges a few times a year AND your printing issuch that it is (or could
    be) done in a single color -- black -- then a laser printer would cost far
    less than the inkjet cartridges. You can get multiple thousands of pages
    from a laser printer for a less than the price of all four ink cartridges
    that it takes to print a picture. Do the math. There are four ink bottles at
    roughly $50 each, that's $200. You get what, 200 prints before you need to
    replace one of them -- usually the black -- for another $50. You can get
    several thousand black prints from a laser printer on a single drum
    cartridge that costs about $150.

    All I am saying is that you have expressed a need for something that can be
    accomplished almost entirely for free -- the workgroup solution -- and
    allows you to have computers in different rooms of the house or you can buy
    some sort of add-on card at an unknown cost, and have this solution that
    demands all of your stuff be within the length of the cables from one
    another.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Sep 1, 2012
    #15
  16. JD

    JD Guest

    Thanks again Jeff.
    The printing is no problem to me. I have an excellent Canon Pixma MP170
    and lots of ink.
    I have to get the computer running before even think of groups. I had
    the Gigabyte card installed and a CD in the computer tray for it but I
    could not use the CD because I could not use the monitor to install the
    card data. The original monitor connection was dead, as was the
    connection to the card after installing it.

    Have a great weekend :)
     
    JD, Sep 2, 2012
    #16
  17. JD

    JD Guest

    OK,understood.

    This is
    I had the AGP CD in its slot on the Advent but, how could I start it up
    to get the drivers installed? The monitor was connected via the DVI-D to
    the DVI-D port on the AGP card.

    No the monitor DID NOT work on the card because I was unable to get the
    drivers installed.

    I know that the port on the laptop is a one way route - OUT.

    I have no problems with connecting to the internet and I do have a high
    - speed internet. The problem is how to get the drivers installed on
    Advent when I have a black monitor.
    Jeff, please keep on the road and focus on .

    I have a choice of 3 video cards :
    ATI Rage 128
    ATI Radeon 9000
    and
    Gigabyte AGP8X.

    I have the AGP back in the computer and it has DVI-D connection to the
    monitor.

    The problem is how to get the drivers installed on the Advent when I
    have a black monitor. Would that monitor not be powered by the AGP?

    Thanks again :)
     
    JD, Sep 2, 2012
    #17
  18. JD

    JD Guest

    I just had a thought. How could I access my Advent computer from my
    laptop via the internet?
     
    JD, Sep 3, 2012
    #18
  19. JD

    Paul Guest

    Teamviewer, Telnet, probably a few other methods.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_remote_desktop_software

    But at this point, isn't the motherboard ruined ?

    Do you have any evidence it's booting ?

    If it isn't booting, a discussion about tools would
    be premature. And if you cannot see the screen, it's going
    to be pretty hard to set up tools. You have to see what
    you're doing, most of the time, to set up such things.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Sep 3, 2012
    #19
  20. JD

    JD Guest

    Great to have you back again Paul.

    The Advent is booting the way it always did, exactly the same sounds.
    Will have a look at Teamviewer soon.
    Thanks for your help.
     
    JD, Sep 3, 2012
    #20
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