Copying Movies: SKY says its legal on "MY SKY"

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005.

  1. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that records up
    to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky subscribers as from 5th
    December 2005. Known as "MY SKY", this recorder can record two channels at
    once, and you can programme MY SKY to create your own TV schedule of sport,
    movies and "endless soaps". Sky says "Soon you can run your own TV station".
    Not only can you record two channels at once, but you can also watch a third
    programme from your planner. You can also pause live TV and rejoin it when
    you are ready. If the programme you want to watch is part of a series, you
    can ask MY SKY to record every episode automatically by simply pushing one

    Now this means you can record about 30 or 40 movies on your hard drive with
    the full blessing of Sky. But a while ago, there was a very enthusiastic
    gentleman on TV who said the authorities would be prepared to prosecute
    individuals who copied movies, even if they didn't show them to others or
    try make money by selling them. For example, it wasn't so long ago that a
    fellow from Nelson hired a DVD from a video shop but inadvertently returned
    a copy of the movie he had made rather than the original. He explained that
    he didn't have time to watch it immediately, so he copied it so he could
    watch it in a few days' time. The DVD shop reported him to the copyright
    authorities who did a full investigation into the matter, but decided not to
    prosecute in this case because the man was "truly sorry" he had copied the

    Now I can't see much difference between a person who copies a DVD that has
    been hired from a video shop, and one who a copies a Sky movie from a Sky
    broadcast. Technically, they have both ignored the requirement of the
    copyright holder not to copy the movie. Now I guess there is no legal
    difference between a person who records a Sky movie on a hard drive, and one
    who copies it on a DVD. If you copy it on a non-rewriteable DVD, you have to
    throw away the DVD to get rid of the movie because you can't write over it.

    Now that Sky has "legalised" the copying of movies so you can watch them at
    your convenience, I guess it must also be legal to hire say, 4 DVDs at a
    time from the DVD shop, and copy these so you can watch them later, avoid
    overdue fees, and get them for the cheapest price.? Surely, there shouldn't
    be a problem if you don't lend your copied movies to others or try to sell
    them, but just keep them for your own personal enjoyment and convenience
    (and shut up about having copied them). What do you think?

    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
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  2. Jones Minor

    PAM. Guest

    What you do in the privacy of your own home is not of my concern. I would
    like to think that authorities would regard recording of TV programmes like
    this as breaking the law but like in the UK, "eating christmas pudding on
    Christmas day" or "Not practicing Archery", they are not worth enforcing and
    a waste of time and effort

    PAM., Nov 24, 2005
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  3. Jones Minor

    Steven H Guest

    Hello Jones,
    its called time shifting, new zealand law provides for it.

    however that person who got caught returning a copyed disk .... time shifting
    doesnt allow that, its still illegal.
    Steven H, Nov 24, 2005
  4. Jones Minor

    Krazy Bob Guest

    The juice wasn't worth the squeeze, why would the nz police spend time &
    money investing in a case that probably would of been successfully won, and
    only have the judge give the guy 100hrs of community service?
    all the time, money, effort, waste of resources.

    at present you can copy movies off sky with the use of your vcr, so why
    would my sky be any different now? just a different way of recording the
    media thats all,
    same applies to music you tape off the radio,

    Krazy Bob, Nov 24, 2005
  5. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    Thanks for this, somehow your reply left out nz.general in the newsgroups
    you replied to.
    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
  6. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    Thanks Krazy, I agree with this. I don't think it's much different
    "temporarily" copying DVDs you hire from a DVD shop either.

    (nz.general added back to groups)
    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
  7. Timeshifting is legal.

    Anyway, I'd rather watch a dvd on my plasma /surround sound system. It is

    Sky cripples content, and I say a good movie is worth watching properly.
    Thats why I never get why people want to watch pirated movies which have
    been shot on some dudes handycam.
, Nov 24, 2005
  8. Jones Minor

    Daniel Guest

    Wasn't he done because he basically stole the original, and not because
    he copied it (i.e. he copies original and then mistakenly returned the

    I think if he'd returned the original the Police wouldn't have batted an

    AFAIK copyright isn't generally enforced by the Government.
    Daniel, Nov 24, 2005
  9. Jones Minor

    Gordon Guest


    What do you think?1) SKY is getting into the hardware business, al la MS and Xbox
    2) Technology is forcing the lawyers to eat dust as they try and catch up.

    the term reasonable use has come into being for what one should be allowed
    to do with copyright material.

    Letting people *sell* (copyrighted material), or give away on mass
    material which others have put an effort into without reward, with the
    idea of making some profit themselves is abhorant. The actors, singers,
    songwriters, are people who need an income just like the rest of us.

    Note music companies have been left out of the above.

    Format shifting is the thing we are not allowed to do legally. Which is
    just silly. One buys a CD and then wants to rip it to mp3 for the portable
    player. Well one is listening to either on or the other, not both at the
    same time.

    Copyright is about money. For the artists/actors/support crew this income
    for them.

    In many ways I wish I could buy music CD's from the artists' themselves
    and give the record companys' a miss. Still this might not work as
    marketing is all important ;-)
    Gordon, Nov 24, 2005
  10. Jones Minor

    shannon Guest

    Stay under the radar, don't sell copies.

    Just like in the case of the chap who copied the DVD, the copyright
    holder has the right to pursue prosecution.
    Sky has waived that right, but the law has not changed.
    Unauthorised copyright infringement is not a crime prosecuted by the
    crown. (Unless they are the copyright holder)
    Copyright law is civil law, and enforcement is up to the copyright holder.
    Copyright is designed to protect the copyright holders commerce from
    losses due to unauthorised copies being sold, not for the random
    persecution of consumers clients and customers.
    Damages and penalties are usually relative to the number of counterfeit
    copies sold by the infringing party.
    shannon, Nov 24, 2005
  11. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    What are PPV events? As to autodeleting, you'd have to be kidding? Sky can't
    auto delete programmes you record on your video tape!
    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
  12. Jones Minor

    Krazy Bob Guest

    Exactly, i think that guy who returned the copy instead of the orginal
    already proves a point that, if he does it chances are 1000's are doing the

    if i had the money, i would buy "my sky"

    Krazy Bob, Nov 24, 2005
  13. Jones Minor

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    I was reading a forum somewhere the other day and someone was advocating
    pirating music but at the same time sending a cheque to the artist. Someone
    else said that it was still theft (morally, legally it is theft regardless)
    because the record company, who you are cutting out of the equation by doing
    this, paid for the music to be recorded, engineered etc. but apparently the
    artist quite often has this cost "recovered" from them by the record company
    out of their royalties anyway, and at a higher rate than they would be
    charged by independent studios. I wish I could remember where I was reading
    it, I'd post a link, it was a damn interesting thread.

    This is from (in

    "$0.17 Musicians' unions
    $0.80 Packaging/manufacturing
    $0.82 Publishing royalties
    $0.80 Retail profit
    $0.90 Distribution
    $1.60 Artists' royalties
    $1.70 Label profit
    $2.40 Marketing/promotion
    $2.91 Label overhead
    $3.89 Retail overhead
    Of the $1.60 the artist is making from the sale of their CD, they have to
    pay out for recording studio fees, and other miscellaneous costs, so they
    basically wind up with little to nothing."
    Nik Coughlin, Nov 24, 2005
  14. Jones Minor

    shannon Guest

    Legally, it is copyright infringement.
    That is why it is covered by the copyright act and not the crimes act.

    Copying your car is different to stealing it.
    shannon, Nov 24, 2005
  15. What about if I were selling 10,000 cheap dvd's a week - all copied from the
    local dvd shop.

    Surely that would be a criminal offence?
, Nov 24, 2005
  16. Pay per view?
, Nov 24, 2005
  17. Jones Minor

    Philip Guest

    Sports events, anything that's charged as a one-time viewer special. And
    while they can't autodelete anything on your VCR, they sure as hell can
    do it on your "My Sky", which is a kind of crippled TiVo.

    Under proposed changes to NZ copyright law, you'll be allowed to make a
    safety copy and copy what you've paid for from one format to another.
    Under the law as it stands, you can't, even though people do.

    The music industry (a.k.a. the pigopolists) is screaming blue bloody
    murder and predicting the end of recorded music as we know it.

    Could be good news - an end to manufactured crap bands and label execs
    snorting their $300K salaries up their noses as they turn local
    originality and talent away in favor of dull repetitions of rubbish from
    their overseas affiliates. Always remember that the music industry are
    the people who say that even when you buy it, you don't own it, the
    people that secretly install harmful programs on your computer in the
    name of "copyright protection", and the people that have ripped off the
    NZ music buying public for years with their gouging prices for CDs.

    And the pigopolists in the USA are getting ready to charge you for
    rewinding, stop motion, playing more than once, time shifting for more
    than a day, skipping unwanted content like commercials, copyright
    threats and dreary promo videos of performers you wouldn't allow in your
    dunny, and anything else other than sitting down quietly and looking at
    it once all the way through and then letting them wipe it off your hard
    drive. Google for "broadcast flag", MPAA, RIAA, Jack Valenti for more
    sordid details.

    Copyright law is much more complicated, and much more restrictive, than
    most people think it is. It shouldn't be, but it is.


    Great Kiwi music every day - on Primetime 1ZZ
    FM 88.1 and 107.7 in the Bay of Islands
    Philip, Nov 24, 2005
  18. Jones Minor

    Matty F Guest

    So the most important person, the artist, gets 11% of the shop
    price? That's easy, the shops should charge $19.20 and the artist
    should get $4.80 i.e. 33% of the shop price.
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2005
  19. Given how easy it is to record/publish CDs these days, many artists are
    doing exactly this. A small band may well have CDs for sale ... it is
    certainly common of the folk circuit :)


    I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good
    people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and
    only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

    Lord Vetinari in Guards ! Guards ! - Terry Pratchett

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
    Bruce Sinclair, Nov 24, 2005
  20. Jones Minor

    steve Guest

    People have been doing this for 25 years with VCRs.......

    Nothing new here. :)
    steve, Nov 24, 2005
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