computer opinions

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by chet, Nov 7, 2007.

  1. chet

    chet Guest

    I did mention in one of my post about the HP Pavillion 6200N vs the
    Vostro, for how much I like the HP's specs and not Win Vista, I may go
    with a custom built rather than off the shelf, Is there any life
    expectency difference between them, can anyone make any suggestion where
    I may purchase a reliable performance with Win XP with the same or
    better performance specs as the HP Pavillion 6200N.

    chet, Nov 7, 2007
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  2. chet

    Pen Guest

    That HP doesn't have XP available, so if you want XP you're forced to
    build it yourself or go to the Dell outlet and pay about the same as HP.
    Pen, Nov 7, 2007
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  3. chet

    HLS Guest

    I just bought a new Compaq which came outfitted with Vista.
    I am another person that HATES Vista, and the loss of use of my older Office
    printer, scanner, and digital camera. No support under Vista.

    This seems like a conveniently fortunate collusion between Microsoft and
    some of the
    peripheral manufacturers.

    A consultant told me that I cannot remove Vista and install Windows 2000
    (which I own)
    , and that installation of XP (which I would have to purchase) is even in
    question. He said XP 'might' run but we might have to get and auxiliary
    video card and network card with drivers...Maybe this is a hopeless case.

    So the question is, if this is a problem with a newer computer, how can I
    know that a
    board I would purchase at Newegg, for example, would be compatible with the
    older Windows variants? I have a couple of older systems with questionable
    motherboards which
    could easily enough be reboarded and set to run 2000, XP, or even Linux.

    Thanks in advance for any comments.
    HLS, Nov 7, 2007
  4. chet

    Alex Clayton Guest

    I just bought a new desktop a few months ago, went with Dell because I have
    tried Vista and want no part of it. The last I read MS is going to cut off
    XP from builders on 1/31/08. Places like Dell are trying to get that
    extended, but I decided not to wait. I ordered and got 2 new laptops for my
    wife and I with XP. That will hopefully hold us for a while. Check Dells
    site. You can add a lot of different things to the PC of your choice ala
    cart, so see if they can build what you want and how much, and do it with XP
    while they still can. Once MS decides to cut off XP, you are pretty much
    Alex Clayton, Nov 7, 2007
  5. chet

    Baron Guest

    Your consultant is wrong.... Or a Mickysoft mole.
    Baron, Nov 7, 2007
  6. chet

    HLS Guest

    His being wrong would give me hope..I am desperately anxious to get rid of

    I am so fed up, I am considering trying to get a separate computer to run
    or something. (Separate, because I cannot afford to be without a computer
    getting something else up and running.) If the new computer cannot be
    I can just junk it, I guess.
    HLS, Nov 7, 2007
  7. chet

    - Bobb - Guest

    Comments Inline:

    RE: " cannot remove Vista and install Windows 2000 "

    Does the consultant mean
    1 That the LICENSE to use it is not valid on the new box ? OR
    2. that Windows 2000 would not work on a 3Ghz dual cpu PC with PCI Express
    bus for video ( since Win2000 doesn't know how to handle it) ?
    Call Newegg - they would know which OS supports the device or if drivers
    are included with the board for for desired OS.
    I would NOT think that your's would be an unusual question for them these
    Also at should have HAL online for each OS ( lists all
    supported devices as of last update for the OS )

    BTW, I have READ that Dell / HP and Compaq will be selling NEW PC's with
    XP until year end. BUT you have to ORDER it , you're not gonna find one at
    HP or Compaq setup that way UNLESS you order it custom and choose it as
    the OS. I was on Dell's site in Sept and still had XP as an choice/option
    for the Vostro's a friend was going to order.
    - Bobb -, Nov 7, 2007
  8. chet

    HLS Guest

    Nope, I have the full license and can transfer the old Win 2000 to a single
    computer.. As if anybody really cared anymore..

    He was alluding to your point number (2).
    HLS, Nov 7, 2007
  9. chet

    Paul Guest

    You could shop for all the components in there, on a site like Newegg,
    and put it all together with a screwdriver :) But not everyone
    wants to deal with the issues. (The only problem I see with the specs
    in that list, is there isn't a good "gamer" video card in there.)

    To solve the "I don't want Vista issue", you could buy a spare hard drive,
    install it in the new computer, and install WinXP on that. Then, use the
    BIOS to select which hard drive to boot. The BIOS usually has boot priority
    settings, so you can change the first hard drive it selects.

    I use that scheme on my homebuilt computer. I have two disks, one
    with WinXP and one with Linux. I don't use a boot manager to
    run them. I use the BIOS to select the boot drive. Yes, it means
    entering the BIOS, but it doesn't take long to switch.

    I also have a copy of Boot Magic, which is a boot manager, but the
    BIOS trick means not having to learn anything :)

    Some BIOS even have a "boot menu". You press a particular key (F8 or F12
    or something) and a list of drives shows up in the BIOS screen. You select
    the one you want from the list. The advantage of the "boot menu", is your
    choice is not saved in the BIOS. The choice you make, only applies to
    the current session. I've never tried to get that to work on mine.

    Also, when installing OSes, I've discovered that the best policy, is
    to disconnect all other hard drives, until the new OS install is finished
    on the new drive. Once you've rebooted a couple times, there should be
    no chance of any funny issues. Then I can connect the other drives again.

    All you need on the new HP, is a spare bay to put the hard drive in.
    If there is a spare 3.5" bay, and some sliders or a tray, you should
    be able to install an extra drive. If you have a spare 5.25" bay,
    one of these kits can adapter a 3.5" hard drive, to fit a 5.25" bay.
    You still need sliders or a tray or whatever mechanism comes with
    the new computer, plus these rails. These rails "take up the slack".
    By the way, this is a horrible price for rails! I used to get these
    for a couple bucks (and they used to be included "free" with a retail
    packaged hard drive).

    StarTech BRACKET Metal 3.5" to 5.25" Drive Adapter Bracket - Retail $12

    Just an idea,
    Paul, Nov 8, 2007
  10. chet

    HLS Guest

    Thanks, Paul. This is VERY helpful.
    I am really not a gamer so this should have little to no impact on me.

    In fact, I may want to play around a bit with Linux.. I understand that it
    is now
    easy to set up, has file compatibilities with many Microsoft applications
    ( xls, doc,etc),
    and is rock solid.

    I really resent being held captive ("tied" in FTC jargon) by Microsoft and
    its cronies.
    HLS, Nov 8, 2007
  11. chet

    Paul Guest

    The 6150 SE is mentioned here. The difference between it and the
    vanilla 6150, is the capability of driving a DVI port with the
    built-in graphics.

    I picked this motherboard, because it is similar to the one in your HP
    proposed purchase.

    M2NPV-VM for socket AM2 and AMD processors. VGA and DVI connectors.

    Now, we go to the download page. Click the "download" link on the left side
    of the product page. When the new page appears, click the "drivers" tab.
    Notice how Win2K is well covered with drivers. You can also download
    display and chipset drivers from the Nvidia site.

    Win2K is very similar to WinXP. The only time they differ, is when
    you download a game demo for the latest exciting new game, and some
    idiot designing the demo, makes WinXP specific calls in their code :-(

    I use Win2K, and kinda like it. I don't like it for gaming, though,
    because of idiotic exclusions that should not be there.

    Paul, Nov 9, 2007
  12. chet

    Paul Guest

    I've had Ubuntu running for about a week or so. Installed on a new drive.

    These Linux distributions use EXT2 or EXT3 (journalled EXT2) as the native
    file system. I think they can mount a FAT32 disk read/write. For NTFS (which
    is the preferred format for Win2K or WinXP), Linux out-of-the-box mounts
    those read-only. That means, when you reboot into Linux, you can "pull" files
    across from your Windows disk.

    In the opposite direction, I tried a tool called Explore2fs, to "pull" files
    from the Linux side. I didn't opt for a more complicated, driver level
    addition to my computer, to make the ability more permanent. Explore2fs is
    an application, and when you select the "Export" option, that is how a
    file gets copied.

    The reason Linux does NTFS read-only, is for safety. AFAIK, there isn't a
    complete NTFS spec available, so the software developers have to reverse
    engineer to get stuff working. There is a package for Linux, that does
    support read/write, but for some reason that is not the default (and I'm
    quite happy with the rationale of not including it).

    So by using a "pull" model for files, I'm able to move a small number of
    files between environments. I haven't opted for a smoother setup, because
    right now, it isn't needed. Currently, I'm experimenting with MythTV
    on the Linux side, and switch back and forth for some things.

    The only real pain in the ass, is the system time. I cannot boot back and
    forth between the two environments, without the time being screwed up.
    Currently, I have to drop down to the BIOS, between OSes, and check that
    the "hours" part of the time is correct. It is some kind of timezone problem,
    and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Both environments are set for the
    same time zone, so that is not it. It's really annoying.

    Paul, Nov 9, 2007
  13. chet

    HLS Guest

    I am top posting so the previous posts can be included for reference, if

    We got my old AMD K2-550 mhz computer going again. Turns out, it was
    only a defective chip fan that was causing the black screen death. This
    runs great with 2000.

    I had not considered reboarding the new HP Compaq. Would this board that
    you have mentioned be compatible with that ? Would I have to replace the
    in the Compaq to make this hybrid Compaq an Ubuntu computer only?
    HLS, Nov 24, 2007
  14. chet

    Paul Guest

    For Ubuntu, "reboarding" is not necessary. Ubuntu and Knoppix are
    examples of "Linux LiveCD" distributions. You download a 700MB
    ISO file. Find a machine with a CD burner. Burn the 700MB ISO to
    a CD. (The first time I did this, it turned out my old burner
    could not handle a CD that size. I actually had to get a new
    burner to do the job. My old burner had a limit of 650MB or so,
    I think.)

    Once you have the CD in hand, you plug it into any computer
    you want to try it on. By default, it doesn't install anything
    on the hard drive. It boots, and voila, you're running Linux.

    The only thing it lacks, when running as a LiveCD, is a place to
    permanently store files. The LiveCD concept, uses part of system
    memory as a RAM disk. That is where temporary files are being
    stored. The CDROM itself, is a compressed read-only file
    system, and while the OS is running, it holds the equivalent
    of a couple GB of applications, drivers, and files.

    To store files permanently, you'd need to use a hard drive
    or a USB stick. If a hard drive was formatted FAT32 on one of
    its partitions, you could store your files on there. I presume
    some FAT format on a USB stick, would also give a home for
    some files.

    So, to start, the thing is pretty effortless. The fun begins,
    when you want to make a permanent install on one of your
    hard drives. But if you just want to look at the pretty
    desktop, or fire up OpenOffice and see what it looks like,
    booting off a Knoppix or Ubuntu CD makes it pretty easy for
    a test run.

    I mentioned the M2NPV-VM, as a means to show you that you could
    find drivers on other companies web sites. Even if HP/Dell/Gateway/Toshiba
    won't give you drivers, there are other sources of drivers. It
    can be a lot of work to dig them up, but with enough effort
    it can be done. You don't need to reboard, unless the board
    is really badly designed. (Stuff doesn't work on it.)

    Paul, Nov 24, 2007
  15. Top Posting or Bottom Posting is easy to deal with. It's when some top post
    and others bottom post that I get annoyed.

    If some dolt comes along and top posts, follow suit if only to keep the
    integrity of the structure intact. I find far more fault with the moron that
    insists on observing netiquitte after the netiquitte has been violated.

    Sheesh, can't we just get along and do what the other guy did, even if he
    did it wrong?

    I think you are right, but I am in a minority. I agree with your reasoning.
    My news reader puts the cursor at the top of the post, and since I am
    replying, I've already read the contents so putting my comments at the top
    makes perfect sense. But, alas, I am perhaps the last sane person left on
    the planet -- well, maybe me and you -- but I have to deal with the other
    dolts, so I try to not top post.

    Whatever I do, I post in the same manner as those that have gone ahead of me
    in any given discussion.

    I think you should have top posted because you replied to a top post. It is
    a complete pain in the ass to scroll to the bottom of a post to find your
    input, ESPECIALLY since you forced your comments to not align with the rest
    of the discussion.
    Jeff Strickland, Nov 24, 2007
  16. chet

    Paul Guest

    Jesus, I didn't even notice :)
    In all the fun, I lost track.
    I even forgot to trim the damn thing.
    Maybe that is the step I missed before posting.

    Paul, Nov 25, 2007
  17. chet

    Tara Legale Guest

    Some people (who top or bottom posting matters THAT much) just need to get
    over it and move on, or "build a bridge and get over it". Life's too short
    to worry about something so inane as top or bottom posting. (just figure it
    out, man).
    Tara Legale, Nov 25, 2007
  18. chet

    Baron Guest

    You can, with a bit of carful adjustment, make it store things on the
    hard drive. But a proper install would be the way to go.
    Yes a USB stick or drive would be one way.
    Most systems that will run a live CD will run an installed system.
    Although there are some bits of hardware that just won't play nice. In
    particular are win modems, USB wireless keys, USB sound cards.
    Baron, Nov 25, 2007
  19. chet

    HLS Guest

    Thanks, Tara, and I agree fully. This is nitpicking for the most part.
    HLS, Nov 26, 2007
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