Computer monitors

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by m Ransley, Dec 11, 2005.

  1. m Ransley

    Leonard Guest

    Just don't pass them into an ADC. For example, a bucket-brigade delay
    line takes an analogue input signal, samples it and reconstructs
    the signal at its output some time later. The amount of delay is equal
    to the sampling interval multiplied by the number of stages, and the
    usual rules about frequency limitations and aliasing apply. But the
    samples themselves are never quantised; they are held as analogue
    amounts of charge.

    - Len
     
    Leonard, Dec 16, 2005
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  2. However, that is not a "discrete" sampled system. It only
    becomes discrete when the analog sample is quantized.

    "Discrete" is the key to the difference between digital an
    analog. It means a specific pre-determined *value*. The analog
    value can always be 1 percent larger or smaller. Or 0.001
    percent... whatever is a percentage greater than the inherent
    system noise.

    But a digital sample cannot be any value other than those in the
    predetermined set of discrete values.

    By definition, if it is "discrete" it has been quanitized.
     
    Floyd Davidson, Dec 16, 2005
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  3. m Ransley

    George Kerby Guest

    You two really need to get a room, 'ya know.
    My work here is done...


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    George Kerby, Dec 16, 2005
  4. Sure Ray... that's why the CRT has "horizontal sync" and
    "vertical sync", and there is *always* *an* *exact* *number* of
    dots and lines between sync points.

    You are claiming that only the first dot in a line is synced,
    and not the dot half way down the line...

    Which of course is abjectly ignorant of how it works.
     
    Floyd Davidson, Dec 16, 2005
  5. You don't seem to have a definition. You certainly have
    not explicitly provided one.
    How can it be a lie, when I've quoted them several times
    now? Do you want to see them again?

    pixel
    n : (computer science) the smallest discrete component of an
    image or picture on a CRT screen (usually a colored dot);

    pixel: In a raster-scanned imaging system, the smallest
    discrete scanning line sample that can contain
    gray scale information.

    Now, I assume it is obvious that I've provide two right there, and
    have done so before... are you saying I'm lying about how many, and
    there were others????

    Or is it just that you can't read *or* add?
    Oh, is that so... Those are not from authoritative sources???
    One is from an online dictionary. I'll admit to not having
    cited the source of the second one... waiting to hear you say
    something like it isn't correct. Is that in fact what you are
    saying??? We can all get a good laugh...
    Since you don't use the word correctly per authoritative
    sources, that can't be a lie.
    I'm not the one who put that term into the discussion. Regardless,
    it is rather crude of you to say that the fellow who did is stupid
    just because you don't understand common terms like "pixel" and
    "resolution".
    Still no anwswer. Who is the liar and asshole?
    You just did. The original statement above is logically correct,
    and you demonstrate again that you cannot logically parse it.

    The definitions I have provided do *not* say an LCD does not
    have pixels. Claiming they do suggests either that you cannot
    read or that you are totally illogical.
    Yes... I could also say that electrons exist in a CRT beam...

    Would that mean there are no electrons in the CPU used in my
    laptop?

    No... it means you aren't able to logically separate valid
    from invalid.
    So cite where it says that! You can't, because it does not.
    You might notice too that the two definitions agree precisely.
    (And they do not say anything about an electron beam because it
    is not part of what defines a pixel, though I assume you are
    about to claim it means CRTs do not have an electron beam
    because it doesn't meantion it.)
    You are fantasizing, which is not a good technique in a
    technical discussion...

    That definition is from Federal Standard 1037C.

    http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/fs-1037/

    About as authoritative and irrefutable a definition as can be
    found Ray.

    Games up though. Clearly *YOU* are the asshole, idiot, and liar
    in this "conversation".

    And the "conversation" is over.
     
    Floyd Davidson, Dec 16, 2005
  6. Fair enough, Denis. But you may save a few pounds, and not loose too much
    quality, by accepting an analog rather than a DVI system. It wouldn't be
    a deal-breaker for me.

    Good luck!

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 16, 2005
  7. m Ransley

    Leonard Guest

    Sampling makes a signal discrete in terms of time, and
    quantization makes it discrete in terms of value. Your usage
    (applying 'discrete' only to the latter) is just as conceptually
    valid as mine (applying it only to the former), but I've not
    encountered it before. One of those cultural differences I expect.

    - Len
     
    Leonard, Dec 16, 2005
  8. It is discrete in time, even though the sampled values are not
    discrete. Similarly, the CRT image is spatially quantized (by the
    dots), but each sample can take on a continuous range of intensities.
    Signals continuous in time or space and discrete in value are less
    common, but they are certainly possible.
     
    =?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=, Dec 16, 2005
  9. m Ransley

    Ray Fischer Guest

    You've already responded to my definition. Did you forget?
    Because you haven't provided any "standard" definitions.
    They're not "standard". Indeed, the notion that there can be two
    different standard definitions for the same word is ridiculous.
    One of dozens.
    That's a lie.
    That's another lie.
    My word usage is correct.
    You are. Are you stupid? Can't you read?
    You're a liar.
    Thus your "standard" definition is flawed.
    Read your definition.
    You're lying yet again.
    Nope. You really are a liar.
     
    Ray Fischer, Dec 16, 2005
  10. m Ransley

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Which sync the electron beam to the input signal and do not sync the
    electron beam to a spot on the screen.

    For somebody who claims to know electronics you sure do demonstrate a
    remarkable lack of basic knowledge.
    Stop lying.
     
    Ray Fischer, Dec 16, 2005
  11. m Ransley

    Ray Fischer Guest

    You really do need to get a prison cell.
     
    Ray Fischer, Dec 16, 2005
  12. [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
    David J Taylor
    Right; and I did not see "that much" misadjusted CRT's for about 20
    years. ;-)
    This is exactly my point: assuming small fill factor of light-emiting
    phosphorus, one color channel of a CRT acts almost exactly as a
    monochrome digital sensor (all the artefacts are very similar:
    aliasing, MTF decrease). The size of the electron beam plays a
    similar role to the circle of confusion of a lens...

    Yours,
    Ilya
     
    Ilya Zakharevich, Dec 16, 2005
  13. [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
    Floyd Davidson
    Again, you are talking at cross-purposes. With data which is exactly
    representable as one number, there is no confusion of terms: you
    convert it to some integer count of appropriate units.

    With data which is a FUNCTION of CONTINUOUS parameter with CONTINUOUS
    values, to convert to finite number of bits of information, you
    replace both the PARAMETER and VALUE with the corresponding discrete
    values. So there are two INDEPENDENT discretization processes.

    I bet you are focusing your attention on different parts of this process...

    Hope this helps,
    Ilya
     
    Ilya Zakharevich, Dec 16, 2005
  14. It is the distinction between "analog" and "digital", which is
    what the discussion was about. Discrete time is not applicable.
     
    Floyd Davidson, Dec 16, 2005
  15. Discrete time has no significance to this application though.
    But the question was about digital vs. analog. Digital is *defined*
    as a set of discrete values.
     
    Floyd Davidson, Dec 16, 2005
  16. And that data is, by definition, not analog either, hence that has no
    relationship to the concept of sampling an analog signal.
    Just on the definition of analog data compared to the definition of
    digital data. (Or, if you wish, the definition of an analog signal
    as opposed to a digital signal.)
     
    Floyd Davidson, Dec 16, 2005
  17. Agreed. By the way, it's "phosphor", not "phosphorus". The latter is a
    chemical element.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 16, 2005
  18. m Ransley

    George Kerby Guest

    For such a "Freedom Lover", you sure want to run a lot of other folks'
    lives. Amazing - these Socialist Left-wing nuts. Just overrun with
    hypocrisy.


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    George Kerby, Dec 17, 2005
  19. m Ransley

    Ray Fischer Guest

    For such a patriot you sure do want to kill a lot of people.

    But you fascists have a long history of such oppression.
     
    Ray Fischer, Dec 18, 2005
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