Computer Makers Sued Over Hard-Drive Size Claims

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by asdf, Sep 24, 2003.

  1. asdf

    Jerry Guest

    any even number, and most numbers could be expressed as a power of two
    by that reasoning, but what is the point?
    Only that men have counted in decimal, and still do, for millenniums.
    This is due to the fact that we evolved with 10 digits. If we had 8
    fingers (including thumb(s) on each hand, we wouldn't need to have
    this lively discussion.

    Jerry, Oct 1, 2003
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  2. asdf

    Jerry Guest

    1 what difference does sector size make on toal drive size, and who
    cares how you <can> express it, and
    2 what about drives that don't have a sector size that is a power of

    and too, no one has talked about the amount of useful data that can be
    stored on a drive, depending on sector length. If you store a lot of
    short records, shorter than your sector, you are not getting anywhere
    near the possible storage of your drive anyway.

    Jerry, Oct 1, 2003
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  3. Fingers, including thumbs, are called digits (Just for future reference).

    Nicholas Sherlock
    Nicholas Sherlock, Oct 1, 2003
  4. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    Are there any drives used in any PC or Mac that fit this description?

    Binary just happens to be how most computers work.
    Mainlander, Oct 1, 2003
  5. asdf

    Jay Guest

    To what?
    So? It isn't a power of two, is it!
    But every single finite integer can be expressed as a multiple of
    a power of two!

    Are you really capable of thinking this one through?
    Who cares?
    Jay, Oct 1, 2003
  6. asdf

    Jerry Guest

    I don't know, but there is no reason why there couldn't be
    and so?......

    Jerry, Oct 1, 2003
  7. asdf

    T-Boy Guest

    mate you're unbelievable the way you're going on about this

    remember the famous Bill Gates saying?, "640K of RAM should be
    enough for anyone" (or whatever it is).

    well why not run up a dos emulation now, open a DOS prompt, and
    type mem . Let me know if yours reports 640 thousand bytes of

    (of course your computer might be wrong) :)

    Why not get it into your thick head, that we've adopted for
    years now, that we've associated the decimal names; kilo, mega,
    giga etc - as near equivalents for binary data storage
    representation; 1024bytes, 1,048,576bytes and 1,073,741,824.

    What size hard disk do you have (reported by the maker) as
    opposed to what size does your OS (Linux, Windows a Mac - I
    don't care) report?

    I bet an 80Gb drive will report close to:
    80/1.073,741,824 = 74.50580596923828125 "mega"bytes - and not


    Kilo = 2^10 = 1,024
    Mega = 2^20 = 1,048,576
    Giga = 2^30 = 1,073,741,824

    [long decode, just for you...
    Kilo byte = 2^10bits = 10000000000bin = 1,024bytes (the 11th
    column is a multiple (just 1) of 1,024's - it's close to a thou
    (tens, hundreds, thousands are all decimal things) but still,
    we use it, to describe binary 10000000000). 1024bytes. 1KB -
    perhaps you'd prefer "K"B]

    Kilo = 10^3 = 1,000
    Mega = 10^6 = 1,000,000
    Giga = 10^9 = 1,000,000,000

    [long decode, just for you...
    Kilo = 10^3 = 1,000 (the 4rd column is a multiple (1..9) of
    1,000's) - hopefully you know how the decimal system works.]

    Maybe you should google 'how a pc works' or something - and
    enlighten yourself to binary - what it is and how we measure

    How big's that 640K RAM of yours again?
    (in decimal number of bytes please)

    and in another post of yours - let me know when you get 7KB/s
    from your 56kbps modem (not including modem to modem
    compression)- I'll buy it.
    T-Boy, Oct 1, 2003
  8. asdf

    Jay Guest

    Great! I was hoping you would use a different alias to tell me this!
    Thanks Mr Mainlander. This is a very useful piece of information.
    I gues you would really like to _teach_ me all about it wouldn't you.
    I have always gotten 56kbps from my modem.
    Maybe you are not really savvy enough to get yours to work properly?
    Definitely sounds like it.

    BTW you can try all you like but you will *never* get 7kB/s from a 56kbps
    modem. I figure you are too dumb to know why but I will tell you if
    you ever care to ask.
    Jay, Oct 2, 2003
  9. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    You're an idiot. 24 MB in terms of memory is not a power of two, yet it
    is fairly clearly understood, by convention, that it refers to 24 x 2^20.
    You're not capable of thinking outside your own head.
    You ob viously do or you wouldn't post zillions of messages pushing your
    Mainlander, Oct 2, 2003
  10. asdf

    T-Boy Guest

    My name is not Mr. Mainlander or Patrick - why do you think I'd
    post as Patrick? Let me answer that for you, you're a pig
    ignorant moron that refuses to admit you're wrong.

    Do you just not understand this "decimalised" notation that
    we've been using for years to represent binary 'amounts' ?

    I figure the above representation spelled it out pretty simply.
    If I did - I'd have done so; you'll note I did not, you'll note
    (if you care to read more carefully) that I directed you to
    find out for yourself by searching Google.

    And I'm glad I didn't bother with a 'PC lesson' for you -
    you're clearly past reasoning and logic.
    Well according to your own maths, your 56kbps will be
    delivering 56,000 / 8 (8 bits per byte) = 7Kb/sec. I guess
    that's the best admission we'll get from you that you're
    argument is wrong.

    And you didn't answer my main question - namely - your "640K of
    RAM should be enough for anyone" - how much RAM is reported
    when you run 'mem' at a command prompt ??? (in bytes)

    Could you just please try and have a go, and answer the
    T-Boy, Oct 2, 2003
  11. asdf

    Jay Guest

    My 'maths' has never said anything of the sort!

    Unfortunately your brain doesn't seem to be working properly today.
    Maybe it has reached its use-by date?

    Where an asynchronous dialup-modem is concerned there are 10 bits or more
    per byte, and most definitely not 8. There is a start bit, 8 data bits,
    and at least one stop bit. So you are only ever going to get 5.6KB/s.

    Also, note how 10 isn't a power of two! Here we have a situation where
    a computer is transfering 56,000 bits per second and even the number of
    bits per bytes isn't a power of two.
    Sorry, I never run the 'mem' command.
    What on earth has 640K of RAM got to do with a hard disk size?
    Jay, Oct 2, 2003
  12. asdf

    Jay Guest

    Mainlander wrote:

    At least I have a head.
    You don't seem to have one at all as far as I can see.
    So what is the relationship with a power of two?
    Jay, Oct 2, 2003
  13. asdf

    T.N.O. Guest

    not only that, but these settings can be changed...
    T.N.O., Oct 2, 2003
  14. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    If I go out and buy 24MB of memory for my PC, I expect to get 24x2^20
    bytes, 24 x 2^20 is not a power of 2.

    I think your wheels just fell off, LOL
    Starting to repeat yourself, LOL
    Mainlander, Oct 3, 2003
  15. asdf

    Jay Guest

    What has going out and buying 24MB of RAM got to do with
    hard disk manufacturers and their hard disk storage capacity?
    Jay, Oct 3, 2003
  16. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    It's to do with your nitpicking point about powers of 2.
    Mainlander, Oct 3, 2003
  17. asdf

    T-Boy Guest

    Absolute crap. Modem bytes (which vary AFAIK from 7 to 12
    bits) have nothing to do with the bytes per second your
    connection is reporting (it reports "computer" bytes per
    second). So we'll leave your red herring just there.

    'cept to say your own maths is now definately wrong - you've
    proven it in your own crap statement (modem bytes! - ha!)
    Because it's analogous (identical in fact) in terms of how the
    "decimal" terms like Kilo, Mega and Giga etc are used.
    T-Boy, Oct 3, 2003
  18. asdf

    T-Boy Guest

    It's also relevant to the argument that HDD manufacturers sell
    their wares using 1Mb = 1,000,000 bytes - yet if you buy a
    Megabyte of RAM, you'll get 1,048,576 bytes.

    Of note mind you: several HDD's I've had (and one in the
    machine now I believe) has printed on it beside the size, "1Mb
    = 1000000 bytes".
    T-Boy, Oct 3, 2003
  19. asdf

    Jay Guest

    Why, Mr Mainlander, do you have to use so many aliases
    with which to display your ignorance?

    On the one hand you say 7 to 12 bits, yet I told you that 10 bits
    is the most common! And I also kindly informed you that a byte
    does not always comprise 8 bits. You agree - yet you disagree!

    The bytes your modem reports are just that! Bytes! Whether they are 9 bits
    or 11 bits (no more, of course). You cannot possible have 7 or 12 bits
    per byte.

    There are some strange noise eminating from the heads of your aliases!
    Ah! Analogous!! Must be your abacolous that is playing up.
    Jay, Oct 3, 2003
  20. asdf

    Jay Guest

    I am going to report you to T-Boy for instigating bogus conversations
    with your own alias.
    Jay, Oct 3, 2003
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