Closed source and artificial scarcity

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 18, 2006.

  1. To get people to keep buying closed-source software, you have to maintain a
    condition of scarcity which does not naturally occur. Here's an example
    <http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36419> of a product which
    could run on an older, obsolete operating system, but allowing it to do so
    would not be conducive to the vendor's business model.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 18, 2006
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Who Am I Guest

    HOW does this force anyone to buy closed source ???

    Seems to me that ALL that has happened is that the vendor is no longer
    offering support for older versions of OS. Open source software also
    does this.
     
    Who Am I, Dec 19, 2006
    #2
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  3. It's forcing customers to upgrade to a newer version.
    Dropping "support" is one thing--all they have to say is "we don't support
    it running on this version". But actively _preventing_ you from installing
    it on that version--that's a different matter entirely.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 19, 2006
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Who Am I Guest

    It's forcing customers to upgrade to a newer version.[/QUOTE]

    No its not. People can choose to stay where they are and not upgrade any
    of their software. Hell I know of one person who was running a
    spareparts buisness on a Mac Se running Filemaker 1.0 even though the
    computer, OS, and Application were no longer supported and hadn't been
    for years.
    No its not, because stupid people will then try to install it on an
    unsupported system then blame the company, not their stupidity, when
    things go wrong.

    Open source does exactly the same, checks for which version of perl,
    libraries, etc etc that you have. It too forces you to upgrade.
     
    Who Am I, Dec 19, 2006
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Phil Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 19/12/06 12.59 p:
    How do they actually know that the software runs fine on Windows 2000?
    Just starting it up and clicking on a few buttons isn't proof that there
    are no compatibility issues with Windows 2000, or that there are
    features that may cause issues on the system.

    And given that Microsoft's support policy for Windows 2000 is
    well-publicised, they should be expecting stuff like this to happen more
    often -- they're not going to support it forever.

    -Phil
     
    Phil, Dec 19, 2006
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    E. Scrooge Guest

    Many programs run fine on W2000 just as many programs still run fine on W98
    as well. Some people are still using W98 and even W95.

    It gets up the Linux user's nose that people are still quite happy using old
    PCs with old OS. And the life of PC isn't always that great after around 6
    years in some cases.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Dec 19, 2006
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    maybe a better word would be coerce....
    No in this case MS has gone out of its way to disable a useful package
    that would work on an old OS. It has actually taken effort and money to
    do so...

    Open source software also
    Not true in context,

    1) You get the source so at the very least you can compile the new
    application by hand.
    2) Usually you can find binary packages ready made....eg Flightgear only
    installs on newer redhat versions than AS3, I simply identified the
    dependencies and went and got newer ones and now it runs fine on
    AS3....no compiling needed, took me about 20 mins.
    3) Being Open source you can upgrade for free...

    If you look at the games market as a classic example, most game
    manufacturers release games with the widest possible OS support...MS on
    the other hand releases new games only on the current OS....Age of
    Empires 3 and Dungeon siege 2 are good examples, followed by Halo which
    is vista only....
     
    thingy, Dec 19, 2006
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    MarkH Guest

    How do we know that MS have disabled the ability to install this on Win2K
    to sell more copies of the newer OS? Is it not possible that MS may have
    tested the software on XP and Vista, but don't want to spend the time and
    money testing it on an older OS that they superseded in 2001? Without
    testing it thoroughly they can't claim it is compatible with Win2K or they
    will get a lot of complaints about their new software breaking peoples
    Win2K.

    Of course all the haters will assume that MS are acting out of malice and
    ignore any possibility that they have any genuine reasons for what they do.

    To be honest I find it rather tiresome reading all these Linux sux and MS
    sux sorts of posts. Wouldn't it be nice if a few of the zealot losers were
    to grow up a little?


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 23-Nov-06)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Dec 20, 2006
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Who Am I Guest

    They are the Mormons of the internet trying to push their religion onto
    the rest of us.
     
    Who Am I, Dec 20, 2006
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Ah, yes - The Inquirer...at least The Register is funny, in a cynical
    sort of way.
    And of course, they'd be the first to yell if MS allowed such software
    to run on W2K and it broke something. MS are damned if they do, damned
    if they don't.

    Note Wii is facing a class action in the US, over defective wrist
    straps. People are having such a good time using this new controller,
    and getting so physical, that sometimes the straps break or the
    controller gets thrown about. Instead of just getting on and enjoying it
    (Nintendo have already fixed the problem), somebody organises a class
    action - way to encourage innovation in future, guys.

    Who'd want to be a successful software company. No matter how good your
    product, several million people will still complain about it. In fact,
    some people will complain about something they never intend to use!
     
    -=rjh=-, Dec 20, 2006
    #10
  11. Go to a shop and look at any piece of software for sale. On the box (or
    somewhere in a little booklet or something) you will see a list of "system
    requirements". It's really quite simple. The software may or may not run on
    a system that doesn't meet those requirements. But don't expect any
    handholding from the vendor if you try to push the envelope and everything
    goes pear-shaped on you.

    The idea is that, as mature adults, we have some ability to deal with the
    consequences of our actions. Which means those actions should be left up to
    our judgement. But when a software vendor starts imposing restrictions "for
    your own good", to keep you from getting into trouble that, it appears, you
    cannot be trusted to get yourself out of, then you have to wonder: are the
    Dimdows users really just a bunch of children?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 20, 2006
    #11
  12. And judging from the news item, it's getting up Microsoft's nose as well.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 20, 2006
    #12
  13. No its not. People can choose to stay where they are and not upgrade any
    of their software.[/QUOTE]

    Except that in that case, Microsoft doesn't want you running Dimdows
    Defender.

    This is a clear example of conflict of interest. If Defender were from a
    separate company from the one selling Dimdows, then surely the vendor would
    see older Dimdows installations as an additional source of revenue. But
    because the same vendor sells Dimdows, it can't resist the temptation to
    use one product as bait to sell another. The installations of older Dimdows
    versions become competition, that it would like to neutralize if it can. So
    Defender becomes a weapon in this game.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 20, 2006
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Dave Taylor Guest

    No, it is their software to support, support costs money. "Not supported"
    is a get out of jail free card for the vendor.
    It comes down to marketing and money, not technical ability.
    Besides, do you think savvy techie users will use this product and pay for
    it? When other stuff is free?
    You are just stirring and playing devils advocate. This is an annoying
    habit to me. Criticism when justified is fine, but I feel that in this
    case, you are just being silly and a pedant.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedant
     
    Dave Taylor, Dec 20, 2006
    #14
  15. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    MarkH Guest

    You seem to be completely unaware of the nature of Win2K, let me enlighten
    you a little. Win2K was never released as a "Home" version, only "Server"
    or "Workstation", so this means that MS considers Win2K to be a business
    OS. So does MS want to be sued for costing companies money by breaking
    their OS?

    On your own personal computer you may be happy to try some software that
    has not been adequately tested with the OS you run, but MS would be rather
    remiss to allow business to just give it a crack and see how it goes.

    Do you really have to wonder if Windows users are a bunch of children? I
    tend to think that people that use words like "Dimdows" or "Micro$oft" are
    much more like a bunch of children, in terms of social maturity at least.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 23-Nov-06)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Dec 20, 2006
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Who Am I Guest

    The don't... use something else. Microsoft is NOT the only company who
    produces software.
    Rubbish. There is tons of 3rd party software that does not work with old
    versions of OS.

    Bollocks.

    You could get a job with the Microsoft FUD department.
     
    Who Am I, Dec 20, 2006
    #16
  17. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Who Am I Guest

    FUD again.
     
    Who Am I, Dec 20, 2006
    #17
  18. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Who Am I Guest

    More to the point, I suspect that RedHat also does the same with their
    corporate versions, the stick with what works and is proven to work
    reliably.
     
    Who Am I, Dec 20, 2006
    #18
  19. This is a clear example of conflict of interest. If Defender were from a
    separate company from the one selling Dimdows, then surely the vendor would
    see older Dimdows installations as an additional source of revenue. But
    because the same vendor sells Dimdows, it can't resist the temptation to
    use one product as bait to sell another. The installations of older Dimdows
    versions become competition, that it would like to neutralize if it can. So
    Defender becomes a weapon in this game.[/QUOTE]

    <sigh> look ... can you please tell me if you are going to get the chip off
    your shoulder any time soon ?
    Can you ar can you not allow people to make their own mistakes and their own
    decisions in their own time without religious fanaticism ?
    Your constant rants do no one any good and annoy many. Either say now that
    you can get over it or say you can't ... it will save me some aggravation
    and some waiting.

    Thanks :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Dec 21, 2006
    #19
  20. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    E. Scrooge Guest

    Actually no one is too worried about that. Most people treat MS with a
    certain amout of caution.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Dec 21, 2006
    #20
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