"Cease and Reprovide"

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Graham J, May 21, 2014.

  1. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Please can somebody explain what a "Cease and Reprovide" actually does?

    I've had an ISP explain that BT hve performed a "Cease and Reprovide"
    simply in order to reset the BRAS profile following a period of poor
    performance caused by a faulty router that has now been replaced.


    -- Graham J
    Graham J, May 21, 2014
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  2. I suspect they'll have moved you to a different DSLAM/MSAN line
    card/port at the exchange.
    Plusnet Support Team, May 21, 2014
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  3. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Would that explain why there's now no ADSL signal whatever on the line?
    Or would that failure be caused by incompetence somewhere?
    Graham J, May 21, 2014
  4. Graham J

    Kraftee Guest

    It will be the way the cease and re-provide has been structured.

    Best thing to do is contact your service provider as soon as possible just
    to make sure that the provision hasn't been delayed (by anything up to 7
    Kraftee, May 21, 2014
  5. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Openreach is sending out an engineer tomorrow afternoon, at ISP's request.

    My suspicion is that the engineer will find that the exchange equipment
    has not been configured correctly.

    All my previous experience with a variety of ISPs is that the BRAS
    profile reset can be achieved without a "Cease and Reprovide". However
    the ISP has this from Openreach (and I quote):

    "... the reason for the cease and re-provide was because when BT
    performed a line test an authentication issue was identified, it was
    escalated internally and BT then performed the cease and re-provide."

    I think my suspicion of incompetence stands.
    Graham J, May 21, 2014
  6. Graham J

    fred Guest

    I can think of an explanation for this - ordering the circuit with the wrong
    realm on it [bit after the @ in the username]. Doesn't seem like the sort of
    thing that would just 'happen' to an otherwise OK line, however.
    I have experienced a f'ckd up transfer in the past where 2 sets of ADSL
    exchange equipment (1 BT & 1 LLU) ended up connected to my line, causing
    'authentication' problems. Took an initially sceptical but dedicated
    ADSL tech quite a while to trace and sort it.

    I could see a physical cease and reprovide been a more official way to
    try and get round a similar sort of problem.
    fred, May 22, 2014
  7. Ordering a circuit with the wrong realm should just require a modify
    order to remedy, rather than a complete cease/reprovide.

    The fact the OP has no sync is certainly indicative of a 'cease' though ;)
    Plusnet Support Team, May 22, 2014
  8. Graham J

    Kraftee Guest

    More likely not connected at all, as I've already stated it will all depend
    on how the cease and reprovide has been actioned. To change exchange
    equipment all you have to raise is a lift and shift, which can be arranged
    by a engineer whilst on a fault.
    It's starting to become more and more probable
    Kraftee, May 22, 2014
  9. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    BT engineer arrived, spent 20 minutes confirming that there really was
    no ADSL signal.

    Went to local green cabinet to check there, saying he would go to
    exchange if nothing at cabinet.

    2 hours later he returns! Says he could find no ADSL signal at the
    exchange, so had to apply for a lift and shift. The cables he had to
    disconnect were buried under other cables so clearly had not been moved

    Connected his tester: FEC count in tens and rising, CRC count in single

    Connected my router (Vigor 2800): up=800k down=4100k snr=6dB, loss=51dB
    Uncorrected error count rising at tens per second.
    Tried to measure download speed - too slow to get www.speedtest.net
    Router then re-syncs, now up=800k down=4100k snr=8dB, loss=51dB
    Uncorrected error count continues to rise.
    Speed measurement: down about 400kbits/sec, up about 500kbits/sec
    Engineer says ISP will have to reset the profile.

    Connection drops several times.
    Engineeer rings to arrange increase in SNR margin, first to 9dB then
    12dB; and enable interleaving. Down sync speed reduces to 3500kbits sec
    (and up reduces to about 650kbits/sec)

    Speed test marginally better: down speed now about 500kbits/sec.

    Router now shows corrected errors rising at tens per second, uncorrected
    errors at one or two per second.

    Previous experience with Vigor routers show that they don't tolerate
    large numbers of corrected errors (they appear to lock up with the
    processing overhead).

    So replace with TP link TD-W8960N. Corrected errors continue rising at
    tens per second, uncorrected errors at one or two per second; but I know
    this router tolerates this level of errors.

    BT Engineer connects his laptop, opens his VPN, and starts writing his
    job report. As he finishes, he closes the job and arranges his next
    call. At that point (this is after about 18 minutes connection) the
    connection drops. We wait 2 minutes, no attempt by router to re-sync.
    Engineer reconnects his tester; after about 3 minutes it starts to sync
    then shows similar connection speed and error performance as before.
    Because he has closed the job he cannot now stay to investigate the
    cause of this failure; so I reconnect my TP-Link router and engineer leaves.

    Engineer was very diligent, but his test equipment did not allow him to
    find the cause of the noise. Also, I'm surprised that his training
    appeared to suggest that he should ignore the quickly rising FEC count.
    Graham J, May 22, 2014
  10. That's really not going to help.
    Plusnet Support Team, May 23, 2014
  11. Graham J

    Kraftee Guest

    This appears to have been a screw up from the start with incorrect orders
    being placed in the wrong order.

    What should have been raised is a lift and shift type order, this can easily
    be done by the man on the scene and indeed was done by the engineer who
    visited to investigate the ongoing loss of service.

    What was done was a cease and provide, which does exactly that. The first
    ceases the service and then after X amount of days the service is provided
    on new equipment, which can be just another port (hopefully) on the exchange
    DSLAM but (when it goes completely wrong) can lead to brand new exchange
    port, new DSLAM port and new network all the way from exchange to end user
    ( problem is that this could still happen at this late stage), effectively
    cutting off the end user entirely. I do hope that it doesn't go this far
    but......it has been known.
    Kraftee, May 24, 2014
  12. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Not sure you've followed this from the beginning ....

    The initial problem I reported to the ISP was slow ADSL sync speed.
    About 256kbits/sec downstream, with 29dB SNR margin; but upstream about
    800kbits/sec. This was to be expected since there had been a faulty
    router connnected, which I replaced.

    ISP said BT would implement a "Cease and re-provide", which to me seemed
    the wrong response. I thought a DSLAM reset would have been sufficient.

    Apparently as a result of the "Cease and re-provide", the service failed

    Engineer on site on Thursday afternoon confirmed no ADSL signal, and
    spent 2 hours doing a lift & shift. Result, 3.6 Mbits/sec downstream
    sync speed; upstream about 800kbits/sec.

    However, BRAS profile (according to ISP) = adsl750 - consistent with
    performance measured using www.speedtest.net. Complained yesterday to

    This morning, about 11am, speed test shows improvement to about 3.2

    Is this the fault of an incompetent ISP, or incompetence within BT?
    Graham J, May 24, 2014
  13. Graham J

    Kraftee Guest

    Now read what I posted and fill in the gaps.

    Cease and Re-provide is a cease and then a provision order, not necessarily
    at the same time (time delay can be 7 days or more)
    Lift and Shift is literally a change from one DSLAM port to another,
    hopefully (but not always) on another card.
    Kraftee, May 25, 2014
  14. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Kraftee wrote:
    So how is a Cease and Re-Provide the appropriate remedial action to
    correct the slow ADSL sync speed?
    Graham J, May 25, 2014
  15. Graham J

    Graham. Guest

    The implication seems to be that a percentage of DSLAM ports are
    faulty, and rather them fix them, they play musical chairs with the
    subscribers (?)
    Graham., May 25, 2014
  16. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    OK I see that a Lift and Shift does that.

    But the Cease and Re-Provide would stil seem to be overkill - however in
    this case the ISP reported having been told by BT: "when they performed
    a line test an authentication issue was identified, it was escalated
    internally and BT then performed the cease and re-provide".

    Presumably the Cease and Re-Provide allows BT to re-enter the correct
    username and password for the service ...?
    Graham J, May 26, 2014
  17. Graham J

    Kraftee Guest

    It isn't, a lift and shift will do the job in one go and can easily be done
    on an engineering visit to investigate the end users problems. Cease and
    Re-provide are 2 work orders, not one and as already stated if fumbled by
    the call centre can lead to complete loss of all services for the end user.

    Kraftee, May 26, 2014
  18. Graham J

    Kraftee Guest

    That can still be done with a lift and shift. As you have stated a Cease
    and Re-Provide is complete overkill.
    Kraftee, May 26, 2014
  19. Graham J

    Kraftee Guest

    Yes it has been known to be done by various 'service providers', especially
    if they can't be bothered to send in their own engineers to see what is
    wrong with their kit.
    Kraftee, May 26, 2014
  20. It would be nice to know which ISP is involved in this problem...
    George Weston, May 26, 2014
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