Can't load one newsgroup!

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Julie Bove, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    I am running Vista 32 bit and Windows Mail. All was going well until about
    4:00 a.m. when suddenly one of my newsgroups won't load. I just get a
    message that it can't display the folder and that perhaps the computer is
    out of memory which it is not. I have tried unsubscribing, resubscribing,
    resetting the newsgroups, closing and reopening the mail. Rebooting...
    Still can't get newsgroup to come up. Newsgroup is not down because others
    can view it.

    Also... My mail keeps wanting to compact but it won't let me do it. I am
    not getting an actual error. It just shuts down.

    This is driving me nuts. Help! Have spent hours and tried several fixes
    that either don't apply or simply just don't help.
    Julie Bove, Nov 25, 2013
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  2. Julie Bove

    Robert Baer Guest

    Dump (may i swear?) Vista.
    Robert Baer, Nov 25, 2013
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  3. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    Sorry. Not an option.
    Julie Bove, Nov 25, 2013
  4. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    There's a suggestion here.

    esentutl /p "path\windowsmail.msmessagestore"

    where path would be the location the messagestore
    is stored in.

    "esentutl - Provides database utilities for the
    Extensible Storage Engine (ESE) for Windows Vista."

    It if was my broken mail, I'd want to verify that's the
    kind of storage used by the Windows Mail. Then hammer
    the thing.

    Do backups first... etc. etc. Any time you try to
    repair a database, you can break it. There's probably
    a backup copy of the thing, but why use that when you
    can just backup everything :)

    Paul, Nov 25, 2013
  5. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    Thanks! Stored that away for future use. Was finally able to get the
    setting to change so that it doesn't try to compact, ever. But still can't
    figure out why won't load
    Julie Bove, Nov 25, 2013
  6. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    I don't know the mechanism behind the storage method
    that program uses. Some email programs use a single database
    file. Others, use loose files for each item stored
    in the program. Which is a bit more scalable, as then
    it's up to the file system to have "infinite" capabilities.
    And NTFS is pretty good at that. (You can put a million files
    in a folder if you want. You just have to be patient.)

    Maybe won't open, because
    the entire database is full and needs to be compacted ?

    Or perhaps the request to compact was a red herring,
    and it was purely based on how many days the thing
    has gone without compaction. And there is some other
    kind of corruption involved, or a file that is locked
    from a previous invocation, and now can't be opened
    until you remove the lock file. (Find the folder with
    the database and have a look for lock files.)

    See if that utility, rather than repairing
    stuff, can just dump "vital statistics" or "properties".
    To see if anything seems at the "end of its rope".

    One of my first exposures to databases at work, we
    had some work data kept in a locally written database
    program, and the database kept running into capacity limitations.
    And it meant the (non-technical) person using it, was
    regularly put through living hell. Work piling up on
    her desk, database busted, and she couldn't do anything
    but wait for some techie to try and repair it. And my
    view of databases hasn't improved much since then... They
    still have a tendency to bite when you least expect it.
    Using a database is a bit like keeping a pet shark.

    Paul, Nov 25, 2013
  7. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    Ah... Could be although I think it has less posts than some others.
    That could be too.
    Will have to ask my bro about this. I don't know much about computers.
    Julie Bove, Nov 25, 2013
  8. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    I'm replying from a Vista VM running Windows Mail, and the
    only dynamic file I see in C:\Users\IEUser\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows
    is "tmp.edb". It should disappear from your folder, when you
    exit from Windows Mail. In effect, it's a lock file in the
    sense that if a second copy of Winmail were to start
    running, it would see the tmp.edb and know a
    copy was already running.

    So that file should be gone, when you exit winmail.


    The WindowsMail.MSMessageStore file on this nearly empty Winmail
    is 18MB in size.

    OK, I changed directory until I got to the folder that contains tmp.edb.
    In addition to tmp.edb, the WindowsMail.MSMessageStore is in there.

    In an elevated ("Run as Administrator") cmd.exe window, I ran

    esentutl /k WindowsMail.MSMessageStore

    and that command is supposed to compute a checksum or something.
    I did it while WinMail is still running. Not surprisingly, I got an
    error, namely

    ...failed with Jet error -1032
    ...cannot access file, the file is locked or in use.

    That implies it's actually a Jet database.

    What I'd suggest, is change directory (CD) down to that
    folder, while in command prompt. Exit WinMail so in
    theory it is not locked. Run the command above. If the
    command doesn't error out, then you know the
    database is not locked. If it errors out, like my test
    case did, then you need to find out how locking works
    on this tool and unlock the thing.

    Locks sometimes get "confused" and stay asserted
    when the executable has exited. This prevents
    re-entry later, and can block operations. That's
    the only theory I can come up with.

    Paul, Nov 25, 2013
  9. Julie Bove

    Ben Myers Guest

    Unsubscribe from the newsgroup, then compact your folders. Please be advised that
    you may lose the messages from a corrupt folder. If this doesn't help, close Windows
    Mail and try running "chkdsk /f" from a command prompt. If you want to see what
    chkdsk finds without actually fixing it, run "chkdsk" without the "/f" switch.

    Ben Myers, Nov 25, 2013
  10. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    Thanks! I will save this and run it by my bro. He's a programmer and I'm
    an idiot! :)
    Julie Bove, Nov 25, 2013
  11. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    Unsubscribe from the newsgroup, then compact your folders. Please be
    advised that
    you may lose the messages from a corrupt folder. If this doesn't help,
    close Windows
    Mail and try running "chkdsk /f" from a command prompt. If you want to see
    chkdsk finds without actually fixing it, run "chkdsk" without the "/f"

    Julie Bove, Nov 25, 2013
  12. Julie Bove

    Robert Baer Guest

    I believe that is true.
    Once in a while, i access a file (.BMP, .JPG, etc using Paraben
    Screen Capture or .TXT using Kedit) and after exiting i find that it is
    At that point, it is absolutely impossible to re-access THAT file;
    but if i drag it somewhere else and say "COPY", the copy is OK (dragging
    the original locked fie does no good).
    To unlock it, i must completely shut down the computer.

    Someone in another NG suggested to use Unlock or Handle (i think that
    was the name),and it was totally useless because it demanded the name of
    the handle (how the F can anyone know that?) and would not accept the
    actual file name (which is known/knowable).

    I would like a utility that either take a file name and unlock tat
    file (if locked), OR one that is extremely indiscriminate and unlock
    every d*mn file.
    Know of any such a beast?
    Robert Baer, Nov 26, 2013
  13. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    There are two scenarios.

    1) You're using two programs. One program has the file locked.
    You use a lock remover. The program with the lock asserted crashes.
    That's not a very good way to run a computer. There could be
    side effects.
    2) The second way, is what used to happen to me on Win2K. Open a
    file with Microsoft Word. Click the "X" on Microsoft Word and
    close it. Microsoft Word is then no longer accessing the file.
    Yet, if a second program goes to open the file, it claims to be
    inaccessible (locked). Back when this was happening, a reboot
    might fix it. At the time, I had neither ProcExp or Unlocker
    to test that with.

    It's the second case, where you'd want to use an Open Handle tool
    to close the handle to the file. Since you suspect there really
    is no process holding the file open. There should be no side
    effects from closing the handle.

    Sysinternals has a utility "Process Explorer", which includes some
    of the code from the older Sysinternals Handle program. ProcExp.exe
    is supposed to have a "Close Handle" feature, for closing a file

    "How To Determine File Handle Ownership"

    This is from "ProcExp.chm", the help file that comes with

    "Close Handle: choose this item to force closed a handle.

    Use this at your own risk: because the process that owns
    the handle is not aware that its handle has been closed,
    using this feature can lead to a crash of the application
    or data corruption; closing a handle in the System process
    can lead to a system crash."

    I presume you look in the Handle pane (lower half of ProcExp
    window, when run in Handle mode), highlight the
    offender, then select the Close Handle function.


    The Unlocker program is for more stubborn problems.

    Paul, Nov 26, 2013
  14. Julie Bove

    thekmanrocks Guest

    Doesn't it suck when one's computer/OS is blamed for not being able to reach a specific website or newsgroup when it has no problem displaying thousands of others?

    Seems illogical. And happened to me a couple times, a decade or so ago.
    thekmanrocks, Nov 26, 2013
  15. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    You can filter out web sites, using entries
    in the "hosts" file. The capability also
    exists in Linux/Unix. So if I came over to
    your house, and edited your "hosts" file, I
    could make a web site "disappear".

    I could also do that with DNS cache poisoning or
    traffic redirection, but that's a separate topic.

    For example, right now I cannot reach,
    since is redirected in my hosts file,
    to the bit bucket. It (slightly) reduces the ability
    of Facebook to track what sites I've visited. A number
    of companies track you on a daily basis (cookie or
    Evercookie based).

    To completely eliminate tracking that way, would
    take hundreds of entries placed in the hosts file.
    And the web addresses used by these companies, change
    on a daily basis (on purpose, to stop hosts filtering
    method). The filtering I do in the "hosts"
    file, is largely a symbolic effort. Namely, that
    I'm not interested in the content available on the
    Facebook site.

    Paul, Nov 26, 2013
  16. Julie Bove

    Ben Myers Guest

    See if this is helpful.

    Ben Myers, Nov 26, 2013
  17. Julie Bove

    Robert Baer Guest

    I assure you only one program had been using the file in question.

    You say that ProcExp.exe is supposed to have a "Close Handle"
    feature, but i never saw that.
    You say there is a "Handle pane", does not exist; nothing below the
    process list.
    It was probably the Unlocker program i tried; useless as refused to
    allow a file name while demanding an impossible to determine handle ID.
    Fiddled around with ProcExp.exe and saw at the top "Find" which says
    "Find Handle or DLL".
    Demands Handle or DLL substring which cannot be known!
    Robert Baer, Nov 26, 2013
  18. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    Start ProcExp.exe

    View : Lower Pane View : Handles
    View : Show Lower Pane (Ticked)

    Find : Find Handle or DLL
    (Enter file name. I entered ".log" to dig up all log files opened)

    Double Click on a file in the returned list of .log files.
    You will be taken to the "owning process", which in
    my case was a Svchost and wmiprvse. The upper pane
    now points to the "owning process" - wmiprvse.

    The lower pane, the Handle View, will contain the named
    file. Which in my test case was C:\WINDOWS\WindowsUpdate.log
    It will be highlighted.

    Handle : Close Handle

    That's a complete sequence.

    Paul, Nov 26, 2013
  19. Julie Bove

    thekmanrocks Guest


    That doesn't explain our quandary though. What you just described is you doing something/configuring something so as not to be able to reach a specific URL.

    The scenario I described is when a site that I go to daily, suddenly, cannot go to, and my ISP or the website's support personnel blames my computer.
    thekmanrocks, Nov 26, 2013
  20. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    Yes, but you as a user, can "verify the shipping" of packets,
    to aid your ISP in understanding it *is* their problem.

    The Wireshark program (promiscuous packet receiver) is
    available for free from .

    That program can "see packets leaving your computer",
    and "see the answering packets come back". That's how
    you debug a problem is not on your computer.

    For example, I try to reach so I can read the news.
    My packet sniffer reports it received a packet with [RST]
    set on it. That's a protocol message that says "go away,
    you bother me". There are two ways that message can be
    generated. A web site can be overloaded (too busy), so it
    sends "go away" messages.

    But a more common scenario, is the ISP is using a
    Deep Packet Inspection box, and the ISP has it programmed
    to send "Go Away" when the user runs BitTorrent protocol.
    Such a DPI box can also send [RST] at the wrong time.
    My ISP did that for three months, on a random basis,
    until they finally fixed it, and properly tuned their
    DPI traffic monitoring and destroying box.

    Seeing [RST] in Wireshark, does *not* mean you phone
    up your ISP every time you see one. But if your
    quality of service suddenly becomes degraded, and
    a great many disparate sites suffer lots of [RST], then
    it is something you should discuss with ISP tech support.

    ISP Tech Support will *never* admit they fouled up.
    For some problems, you report them anyway, and the
    ISP will silently fix them. Which is better than nothing.

    Some functional aspects of your connection, can be
    debugged from Command Prompt (MSDOS) window. With
    commands like "nslookup" or "ping"
    and the like.

    Once you do the background checks, the ISP tech support
    will be less able to blame your computer...

    Paul, Nov 27, 2013
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