Canon scanner (CanoScan 8000-F)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by John Vanini, Apr 5, 2008.

  1. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    I have a Canon scanner (CanoScan 8000-F) and, some time ago, marks looking
    exactly like moisture trails (I'm sure that's what they are) appeared all
    over the inside of the glass.

    I can't find a way of removing the glass, so that I can wipe the underside
    clean, without risking breaking the plastic casing.

    It was just outside the warranty period (isn't it always!) and Canon wanted
    to charge me almost the same price as the cost of a new one.

    This 'misting' affects everything I scan in but is worse for photographs
    where they produce dull, flat areas, which I can't find a way of removing.

    Does anyone know of how I might get inside the scanner to clean the glass,
    please?

    Regards

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 5, 2008
    #1
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  2. John Vanini

    Bob Williams Guest

    You might try putting the scanner in a cardboard box with a pound of
    Silica Gel. Seal the box and let it stay for a day or two.

    You can buy Silica gel at the pet shop as Cat Litter.
    It is marketed as Litter Pearls, ExquisiCat Crystals, and TidyCat
    Crystals. Scatter the silica gel on the bottom of the box to increase
    the surface area for adsorption.
    Bob Williams
     
    Bob Williams, Apr 5, 2008
    #2
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  3. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    Thanks Bob, believe it or not, I never thought of that and it's the most
    obvious solution!

    Thanks! Just after I sent this post I realised it was, really, to the wrong
    group - but it appears I was wrong.

    Thanks again Bob, thanks very much - I shall certainly try that!

    Regards,

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 5, 2008
    #3
  4. John Vanini

    me Guest

    But doesn't this assume it's simple moisture and not a more viscous
    lubricant which might be a more reasonable assumption? I cant see how
    moisture would cause this in conditioned living space. Of course I could be
    wrong.
     
    me, Apr 5, 2008
    #4
  5. John Vanini

    N Guest


    Also, using the scanner, repeatedly, should dry it, if it's water vapour,
    given the heat of the lamp.
     
    N, Apr 5, 2008
    #5
  6. Sorry to differ from the other replies, but my bet is that it is
    either 'out-gassing' from the plastics or lubricants used in the
    scanner (or perhaps something in your own environment, or possibly
    even a bug of some kind. I've had a similar problem that turned out
    to be a small caterpillar leaving trails across the glass, presumably
    from a household moth..

    By all means try the other method, but I think you will need to get
    the scanner apart. Look carefully for screw covers, or they may be
    under labels, then look for small slots along the joins, and gently
    flex the case looking for areas that might hide hidden clips that
    might be sprung via a flat bladed knife or similar. Also check
    carefully around the glass itself - that may be the way in... If you
    have a computer/camera fixit place nearby, why not just go ask them?
    Those folks generally know the sort of assembly tricks used and may be
    able to do the task quite cheaply.
     
    mark.thomas.7, Apr 6, 2008
    #6
  7. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    Thanks everybody,

    I'll look into all the suggestions but it's obviously easier to try the
    silica gel route first.

    I did put the scanner in a warm, dry cupboard for a day and that made no
    difference so moisture didn't seem likely, however,I couldn't see what else
    it could be.

    I've tried to open the case but can't see anyway of doing so. There are no
    signs of screws or even labels under which screws might be hidden, as you
    suggest Mark, but I'll have another good root around to check.

    I rang Canon, at least a couple of times, with exactly that in mind - to ask
    them how to get into the case but they either couldn't or wouldn't tell me.
    I was hoping that they might be able to tell me what the 'trails' might be
    but, again, either couldn't or wouldn't.

    They said I might damage the interior electronic card (or words to that
    effect) and it was best to return the whole unit for servicing, but, to do
    so, would have cost me almost as much as a new scanner - and I would have
    had to pay carriage charge and insurance both ways.

    Anyway, thanks again for all your help and advice. All check into all of
    them.

    Regards,

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 6, 2008
    #7
  8. You could try turning it upside down and flushing a lot of distilled
    water though it. Just don't wet the optics or, even worse, a greased
    part. Once the glass is very clean you should be able to gently roll a
    large bead of water across the glass so that no drops are left behind.
    Use this trick as a final wash even if you do get the case open. A
    paper towel's dust and residue will make a total mess of the optics.

    A lot of small electronics has screws hidden under the label or under
    the rubber feet. You can poke them with a needle to see if there's a
    hollow space behind them.
     
    Kevin McMurtrie, Apr 6, 2008
    #8
  9. John Vanini

    Paul D Moore Guest

    <snip>

    This problem is very common, particularly with Epson scanners. I've had new
    scanners from Epson delivered like this. The problem is condensation forming
    under the glass. It won't disappear over time, it will get worse. It is made
    worse if the scanner is left in a moist atmosphere The effect is the same as
    on a bathroom window. If you leave a windowpane uncleaned in a bathroom it
    will start to look exactly the same as your scanner over a period of time.
    It's the tiny particles of dust/dirt/grease etc that stick the surface when
    the steam is formed and condenses on the glass. It's the same with a
    scanner; particles are left on the glass. It is very difficult to remove
    without taking the scanner apart and cleaning the glass. I doubt that using
    silica gel will remove it. But please do let us know it works.

    Every Epson scanner I've owned has developed this problem over time. Someone
    once suggested that with Epson its the plasticizers in the plastic that gass
    off. This may explain why Epsons seem to be particulary affected
    ..Fortunately, someone posted disassembly instructions for Epson scanners on
    one of the scanner newsgroups a few years ago. I suggest you actually post
    to one of the scanner groups in case someone knows how to take a Canon
    apart.

    pdm
     
    Paul D Moore, Apr 7, 2008
    #9
  10. John Vanini

    Paul D Moore Guest

    <snip>

    This problem is very common, particularly with Epson scanners. I've had new
    scanners from Epson delivered like this. The problem is condensation forming
    under the glass. It won't disappear over time, it will get worse. It is made
    worse if the scanner is left in a moist atmosphere The effect is the same as
    on a bathroom window. If you leave a windowpane uncleaned in a bathroom it
    will start to look exactly the same as your scanner over a period of time.
    It's the tiny particles of dust/dirt/grease etc that stick the surface when
    the steam is formed and condenses on the glass. It's the same with a
    scanner; particles are left on the glass. It is very difficult to remove
    without taking the scanner apart and cleaning the glass. I doubt that using
    silica gel will remove it. But please do let us know it works.

    Every Epson scanner I've owned has developed this problem over time. Someone
    once suggested that with Epson its the plasticizers in the plastic that gass
    off. This may explain why Epsons seem to be particulary affected
    ..Fortunately, someone posted disassembly instructions for Epson scanners on
    one of the scanner newsgroups a few years ago. I suggest you actually post
    to one of the scanner groups in case someone knows how to take a Canon
    apart.

    pdm
     
    Paul D Moore, Apr 7, 2008
    #10
  11. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    Strangely enough, I posted to this group by accident so then posted the same
    question to a scanner newsgroup but got only one reply from them!

    I'll have a look to see what other scanner groups there are but I've had a
    lot of good ideas and suggestions from this group (for which I again, thank
    everyone) so am pleased I made the error in the first place.

    Regards

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 7, 2008
    #11
  12. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    When I first tried to take it apart (and looking at it now) I couldn't see
    any labels, rubber feet, or anything under which screws could be fitted -
    but Epson had to assemble it somehow, in the first place, and their repair
    team must be able to get in without breaking anything!

    I've removed whatever, I can see is removable but there appears to be no way
    in.

    Trying to wash it out with water is a little bit frightening as there is
    only a small, thin gap down one side of the plastic moulding and it would be
    so easy to get water in the wrong place but thanks for your suggestion and
    the information.

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 7, 2008
    #12
  13. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    I'm sorry! So, sorry! So, very, very, sorry! I meant to say Canon not Epson!

    I've also got a problem with an Epson printer and have been discussing this
    all morning with the result that I typed the wrong makers name.

    Sackcloth and ashes! Woe and thrice woe, I am undone!

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 7, 2008
    #13
  14. Maybe you can post a link to a photo of the scanner's bottom? If there's any
    chance of taking it apart, people in this newsgroup may help. There is also
    the chance that it is simply weld together, or just has some very strange
    screws that only the service may loose (a common practice now).
     
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Apr 7, 2008
    #14
  15. That's a very good idea, and you can use a space heater with fan, too
    (that's how I dried off my VCR). I had a Black&Decker scredriver for more
    than 10 years, and today the cable from the charger was short circuited, and
    the only way to fix it was to open the charger, and the only way to open it
    was the hammer approach, since it was obviously weld together and not
    screwed. So, I throwed it away, and got for 55 euros a Bosch screwdriver
    with Lithium battery and cruise control....(I suggest you try the space
    heater approach, before, well...)
     
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Apr 7, 2008
    #15
  16. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    I can take a photo of the scanner but have nowhere to upload it so can't,
    unforuantely, give a link.

    What I never mentioned (because it's some time since I tried to get into the
    unit, and simply forgot about until I turned the unti over a few moments
    ago) is that there are 4 screws underneath, which hold a metal plate,
    roughly 8 1/2" x 4", in place. Removing the screws, doesn't free the plate,
    however. Only the one 4" wide edge can be lifted and only about 1/16" (if
    that) but the other end is held securely in place for some reason that I
    can't make out.

    Even if I removed the plate, I couldn't get the glass out through the
    aperture and it would be difficult to get my hand in. On top of that,
    looking through the glass I can see a rectangular box, roughly the same size
    as the plate, and in the same place, but no way of removing it. The box,
    obviouly, houses something and, my guess would be a printed circuit card of
    some description.

    I hestiate to go too far in case, in stripping things down without some
    knowledge of what I'm doing, I damage something beyond repair. That's why I
    was hoping someone on the group might have had the same, or a similar,
    problem and solved it.

    Thanks for your reply, though.

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 8, 2008
    #16
  17. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    Hi Allen,

    I live in Sussex, England. on the South Coast. It's not particulary humid
    but we do get condensation indoors at various times.

    Another thing I forgot, and have only just remembered (sorry folks!) is that
    I did put it in our airing cupbard (I don't know what you'd call it in the
    States but it's where we store our sheets and blankets and such) where we
    have a large hot water tank (the hot water supply to the house) and it gets
    very warm and dry in the cupboard. I know this because that's where I dry
    all my chillies!

    Getting back to the subject, I, also, remember that it didn't even slightly
    reduce the marks. I'm sorry, I didn't mention this before but I'd forgotten
    until writing this post..

    Apologies to all.

    Regards,

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 8, 2008
    #17
  18. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    Hello Toby,

    Brilliant! I must admit, I have, accidentally, lifted that top cover off
    many times in the past and never once thought to shine a light down the
    holes! I've just put the cover back.

    Yes, as you say there are, indeed, two screws way down at the bottom of the
    holes and tomorrow (it's too late at night, right now) I'll see what I can
    do.

    Thanks very much, Toby. I believe that you may have the answer (sorry if I
    seem doubtful but until I get that ?%@@!!? glass out.....)

    Also, thanks to all - you've all be very helpful and Itried to help me -
    something which I very much appreciate.

    If I may, I'll let you all know if, and when, I get the glass out!

    regards,

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 8, 2008
    #18
  19. John Vanini

    John Vanini Guest

    Hi Toby,

    Been away for a break so couldn't try to dis-assemble the scanner until this
    morning.

    I removed the top cover and undid the two screws at the bottom of the
    'wells', as you described, and nothing moved, so I turned the scanner over
    and removed two more screws from the base which looked as though they might,
    also, be holding the top in place but all were very short screws and, again,
    nothing would move, try as I might.

    The top may be just stiff because it hasn't been moved in a long time, but I
    hesitate to try to prise it off with a screwdriver or a knife in case I
    break the moulding.

    I shall keep (gingerly!) trying, but do you have any more information,
    please? I was so certain the top would either slide off or lift off and got
    a shock when nothing moved, even slightly.

    John
     
    John Vanini, Apr 13, 2008
    #19
  20. John Vanini

    DutchJohn

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    I just managed to take the glass off. :veryprou:
    You do have to unscrew the mentioned 2 screws at the top, and the 2 on the back.
    You than have to slide the black top unit just slightly to the back, this will allow you to lift the back as two tiny clips unlock.
    Two clips of the black unit are still fixed near the edge of the gray plastic glass covers, 1 left and 1 right.
    Maybe you have to unclip the black rims with a knive, mine came off just by lifting the back of the unit.
    Than you can slide the glass with the gray plastic covers attached to the back to take it out.
    Turn the glass over for cleaning, and put it on top of the unit, so no dust will enter.
    The gray covers are glued/taped to the glass and do not need to be removed.

    DutchJohn
     
    DutchJohn, Dec 8, 2008
    #20
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