Canon A570IS, 200 shots on eneloop, 10 shots on Alkaline

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by SMS, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. SMS

    SMS Guest

    I lent our A570IS to a relative for a cruise to Alaska. She didn't want
    to take the NiMH batteries and charger, so I told her to bring plenty of
    disposable AA Alkaline batteries, which she didn't, so she was buying AA
    batteries on the ship (I cringe to think of the price that Princess must
    charge for AA batteries). She came back today, complaining that the
    camera would only take "a few" pictures on a set of AA batteries and
    that she stopped using it rather than buying AA batteries on the ship.

    I've never used Alkaline AA batteries in this camera, but an older A60
    uses four AA alkaline batteries without any problems, giving about 150
    shots per set. In the A570IS I always use either NiMH or lithium AA
    cells as a back-up (though now that spare lithium AA batteries aren't
    allowed in checked luggage, I only keep one emergency set with the
    camera) and don't take along a couple of four packs). I wonder if this
    is normal with AA alkaline batteries and this camera. Alkaline batteries
    have very high internal resistance, and don't last as long in
    high-current applications as NiMH, but surely they should be good for
    more than 10 shots or so.
    SMS, Jul 7, 2008
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  2. SMS

    ransley Guest

    Thats what happens when you lend a camera to someone who makes no
    effort to understand the camera fully. With flash? what was the
    temperature, with IS on, autofocus, Lcd, alot of reviewing, and
    someone who doesnt know how to use a camera, who knows. Someone who
    thinks can use settings that dont drain batteries as fast. What brand
    and age were the batteries, I recently bought old ones that were not
    very good. Alkaline to me dont work well.
    ransley, Jul 7, 2008
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  3. SMS

    Dave Cohen Guest

    I'm not familiar with the model quoted, but it must surely be more
    economical on battery drain than my A95. I started to run a test a while
    back to see how many shots I could get out of a set of alkalines. I gave
    up and removed them at 150 shots to replace them with the then newly
    purchased eneloops. I would always recommend the latter over alkalines,
    but alkalines should work in a pinch.
    Obviously results will vary with flash and display usage.
    Dave Cohen
    Dave Cohen, Jul 7, 2008
  4. SMS

    ASAAR Guest

    Expect only misleading answers from this self professed "battery
    expert", whose main purpose in life seems to be to disparage AA
    batteries at every opportunity. In normal conditions, Canon says
    that the A570 IS is CIPA rated (1/2 shots use flash at full power)
    at 120 images using alkaline AA batteries and 400 images using NiMH
    batteries. If the viewfinder is used instead of the LCD monitor,
    the number of shots goes up to 400 and 900 images, respectively,
    when using a pair of alkaline and NiMH cells.

    SMS has frequently talked about alkalines doing poorly in cold
    weather (which Canon's manual also mentions), so it would be quite
    odd if he didn't warn his princess on the Princess about what to
    expect in Alaska. Of course his question is disingenuous. I'm sure
    that he knows quite well that getting only 10 shots from alkaline
    batteries is not normal, except in decidedly abnormal conditions.
    It's a shame that he had to resort to making his relative look like
    a dunce in order to make his bogus point about AA alkalines. If
    cold weather was the contributing factor, the A570 IS's manual
    offers a solution - warming the batteries in a pocket before use.

    I also wonder about the validity of his claim that spare lithium
    AA batteries aren't allowed to be packed in checked luggage. I've
    heard about that being a requirement for rechargeable Li-Ion
    batteries with baggage checked on airlines. Is this also true on
    cruise ships for AA batteries? It should be noted that unlike
    larger Li-Ion batteries, lithium AA cells are internally limited to
    fairly low currents, so accidental short circuits shouldn't be as
    potentially dangerous as shorted NiCad or NiMH cells.
    ASAAR, Jul 7, 2008
  5. SMS

    ransley Guest

    You miss understand what I said, I in no way put down AA
    rechargeables, all I use is AA, Sanyo Eneloop, or Energiser NiMh.
    Depending on location in Alaska it could be 45f for a high around now.
    I recently bought new what were outdated Alkaline cells that after one
    month wont run a tv remote, but we have no idea how this person used
    the camera or how much time they reviewed their shots with the Lcd. I
    suspect poor battery performance was from a lack of the persons
    understanding many issues on cameras, settings and batteries.
    ransley, Jul 7, 2008
  6. SMS

    SMS Guest

    I'm sure the LCD was being used to frame the shot, not the viewfinder,
    and that no effort was made to turn off the flash. However the time
    spent reviewing the photos on the LCD was minimal. I guess that it's
    possible that the batteries sold on the ship were old, but alkalines
    have a very long shelf life.

    The A60 used four AA batteries, the A570IS uses two, despite having a
    larger LCD and other power-consuming features.

    When I get the camera back I'm going to try it with alkalines, something
    I never tried (I use lithium AAs as a backup, and they work fine).

    I wish some reviews would include battery life for NiMH, Lithium, and
    alkaline AAs. Now the typical review says something like "The alkalines
    that come in the box will quickly find their way into the trash."

    I don't mind AA rechargeables now that low-discharge NiMH batteries are
    so widely available and so cheap, but I didn't expect alkalines to be as
    bad as they are.
    SMS, Jul 7, 2008
  7. SMS

    ASAAR Guest

    No, you misunderstood what I wrote. It was critical of SMS's
    post, not *your* reply. If you re-read what I wrote, I think you'll
    see that I agreed with what you wrote. My point was that by trying
    to reason with SMS you were wasting your time, since he is quite
    aware of the points that you made, and HE, not YOU is the one that
    looks for opportunities to disparage AA batteries.

    Since lithium AA batteries not only offer provide much better life
    than other AA types but also offer far better performance in cold
    weather (better even than Li-Ion batteries), he could have slipped a
    pair in the A570 IS. If he also preset the camera so the flash
    wouldn't automatically go off when taking pictures in bright
    daylight, the camera might have been able to take 600 or more shots
    with those batteries. Putting another 4 lithium AA cells in a
    small, inexpensive flashlight (torch) instead of packing loose
    spares in checked baggage could have allowed his photo-noob female
    relative to take up to a couple of thousand shots, without having to
    bring along a charger or buy extra alkalines at inflated "Princess"
    prices. :) I'll repeat, SMS knew much more than he let on in his
    disingenuous post. It's just another of his typical trolls and for
    all we know, could have been completely fabricated.
    ASAAR, Jul 7, 2008
  8. When I bought my first digital p&s camera (Olympus 3030) a few years
    back, I didn't have rechargeables with me and wanted to try it out.
    I put in 4 alkalines (fresh) and started taking pictures while my wife
    continued shopping. Fifteen (15) shots and they were dead. Different
    cameras seem to have different drain characteristics. A Nikon Coolpix
    that uses 2 AA batteries delivers about 1/2 the shots of rechargables
    when powered via alkaline.

    Clair Johnston, Jul 7, 2008
  9. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Yes, I think that the A570 IS probably has the typical digital camera
    profile of demanding high current for brief periods of time, something
    that alkalines are particularly bad at providing. Canon shouldn't even
    provide alkalines in the box, they should just tell the user to use NiMH
    or Lithium AAs.
    SMS, Jul 7, 2008
  10. SMS

    ASAAR Guest

    They aren't. There have been many cameras, including several
    other Canon Powershots, that for several years have been able to
    take from many hundreds to over a thousand shots per set of AA
    batteries. As the camera was yours, all you needed to do was look
    in your A570 IS's manual to see what kind of battery life alkaline
    AA cells provide. As a self-professed battery expert that even has
    a website dedicated to praising Li-Ion batteries and finding fault
    wherever possible with AA batteries, your professed ignorance of
    your own camera's battery performance doesn't ring true. A
    reputable researcher, upon discovering such unbelievable results,
    would do a quick test to verify them, before brazenly announcing to
    the world in his message's subject line :
    but for you, this is nothing new. According to Canon's tests, it
    would be more like 400 shots on their 2,500mAh NiMH cells, 120 shots
    using alkalines, and 320 shots using Eneloops, taking into account
    their smaller (2,000mAh) capacity. It's interesting that your
    figures represent a mixture of your experience using Eneloops, and
    your female relative's anecdotal account of only getting 10 shots
    from alkalines. You obviously shoot the same way that your relative
    does, where "no effort was made to turn off the flash".

    I'm pleased to know that you can't claim that your filters
    prevented you from seeing my reply, since it was quoted in its
    entirety in ransley's post, which you did read. Don't disappear,
    hear? The more frequently you return, the more people will see
    reasons why you can't and shouldn't be trusted.
    ASAAR, Jul 7, 2008
  11. In my Canon Powershot AA-using A300 I only get about a dozen shots on
    a cold day. But after putting the batteries in a warm pocket for five
    minutes I'll get several more. And so on. If I'm shooting in the cold
    I'll usually keep rotating three sets through the camera and a warm
    pocket to keep the thing going.
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 8, 2008
  12. SMS

    SMS Guest

    I don't think it was too cold on this cruise. It was San Francisco,
    Ketchikan, Juneau, Skagway, Tracy Arm Fjord, Victoria, San Francisco in
    late June/early July. I've been much further north in Alaska, earlier in
    June, and the weather was pretty mild.
    SMS, Jul 8, 2008
  13. What kind of AAs was she using? Some cameras have brief high peak
    surge current demands which are uncomfortably close to the maximum the
    cheaper alkaline AAs can deliver. That's why lower nominal capacity
    reachargeables can last so much longer than nominally much higher
    capacity alkalines in some cameras. I've bought some cheap alkaline
    AAs on the run which only lasted a dozen or so shots even in summer
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 8, 2008
  14. SMS

    SMS Guest

    I'll find out when I get the camera back. I guess it's possible that the
    cruise line was selling some no-name AA batteries, but I doubt it.
    SMS, Jul 8, 2008
  15. SMS

    ransley Guest

    My old sony is the same, with alkaline in winter I got a few shots,
    with nimh I go forever it seems. Now i use eneloop since my NiMh are
    very old, its great having a charged camera now!
    ransley, Jul 9, 2008
  16. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Okay, so it seems to be a consensus that getting very few shots on
    alkalines is pretty normal on newer models. I should have insisted that
    my sister-in-law take a charger and some NiMH cells. I've been spoiled
    by not having to deal with AA batteries for a while. I bought the A570
    IS because the spousal unit wanted a larger camera than the sub-compact
    pocket cameras (which all use Li-Ion), and the AA batteries were a
    compromise I was willing to make in light of the Sanyo eneloops and
    other low-discharge NiMH batteries.

    I've added some stuff to the web site about this. Unrelated, I've added
    a longer evaluation of the Tenergy T6278 Universal (AAA, AA, C, D, 9V)
    Smart Charger, I've expanded the section on solar charging, and fixed
    some of the dead links.

    Earth's Independent Source for Digital Camera Battery Information
    SMS, Jul 9, 2008
  17. SMS

    ASAAR Guest

    It's the same old story with you, isn't it? You'll blindly accept
    whatever anecdotal report supports your bias. Why don't you test
    your A570 IS when you get it back? Getting fewer shots on new
    camera models using alkalines is *not* pretty normal. My Fuji is
    good for 300 shots using the CIPA test where 1/2 of the shots use
    the flash at full power, and with the LCD display turned on. The
    previous version of this camera was only good for 250 shots.

    Your own A570 IS is rated by Canon as being good for 120 shots
    using alkalines with the same stringent CIPA test, and 400 shots per
    set of alkaline batteries with the more lenient non-CIPA test where
    the viewfinder is used instead of the LCD display. The previous
    version lacking IS (A530/A540) was only good for 90 and 360 shots,
    respectively. You and I both know that with a fresh pair of
    alkaline AA cells and the mild weather your relative used your A570
    IS in, it will be good for far more than 10 shots, even if you
    forget to disable the flash. But that won't stop you from trying to
    mislead gullible visitors to your "battery information" website.

    BTW, Canon reports that with the latest version (the A590 IS) the
    number of "CIPA" shots using the flash and LCD display increases
    from the previous 90/120 to 200 shots. So much for your theory that
    newer cameras get fewer shots from their batteries. You once again
    have demonstrated your fanatical battery bias and lack of integrity.
    ASAAR, Jul 9, 2008
  18. SMS

    SMS Guest

    Well the whole point of a point at shoot is that you should be able to
    use it _without_ having to understand it fully. I don't care what the
    settings are, 10 photos on a set of batteries, even with flash, even
    with reviewing the photos is unacceptable. Including a set of alkaline
    AA batteries may be seen as a good idea by the manufacturer, but I think
    it really gives the wrong impression of their product to the consumer
    that isn't familiar with all the issues of different kinds of batteries.
    I didn't realize just how bad the situation is with alkaline batteries
    until I saw all the responses to the original post. I looked on the
    Canon web site and they say 120 shots on a set of alkaline batteries,
    but they don't say the conditions used.
    SMS, Jul 10, 2008
  19. SMS

    ASAAR Guest

    Yes, assuming that one (such as your relative) isn't a total
    nitwit. If the AA batteries were unused when placed in the camera,
    getting only 10 shots may be because they weren't alkaline
    batteries. Using standard, or "heavy duty" batteries could result
    in only 10 shots. That you automatically assume that your camera
    might be good for only 10 shots per set of alkalines indicates that
    either nitwit genes run in your family, or that you're still at it,
    trying to dishonestly mislead gullible people into thinking that
    cameras won't perform well if they use AA batteries.
    Nitwit or spinmeister? The information is in your manual. Using
    alkaline batteries the A570 IS is good for 120 shots using the CIPA
    test procedure, and approximately 400 shots for flashless shots
    using the viewfinder. Once again, the self proclaimed battery
    expert has to resort to pretending to be dull witted and ignorant in
    order to make it appear that AA batteries aren't up to the job.

    BTW, once again you appear to be either a complete nitwit or are
    blatantly lying when you claim that "they don't say the conditions
    used". Have you any idea what "CIPA" means? Quoting from the
    Specifications Tab on Canon's A570 IS web page :
    ASAAR, Jul 10, 2008
  20. SMS

    SMS Guest

    I saw on the Delkin web site at
    "" their comparisons
    between AA alkaline, AA NiMH, and the RCRV3 that they sell. Of course
    they're trying to sell the RCRV3 packs, so maybe they aren't credible
    (and the self-discharge they show is pre-eneloop), but everyone that's
    responded to my original post said the same thing about alkaline
    batteries (in fact Delkin shows more shots on alkalines than anyone
    seems to have gotten with alkalines). I don't think the RCRV3 will work
    in the A570 though.
    SMS, Jul 11, 2008
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