Camera club questions answered....maybe.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Tony Cooper, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Last night I attempted to ask the Competition Chair the questions that
    have been posed here. She was extremely busy with other things, and
    referred me to Jim. It turns out Jim is the hands-on guy who
    coordinates things and operates the projector.

    ppi - I asked him if images would display better at a higher ppi and
    why 72 was specified.

    He said that a higher ppi would not result in a better image on the
    screen, and that it really wouldn't make a difference to the viewer if
    someone sent in images using a higher number. However, he said, if he
    didn't specify some number, people would ask what number to use for
    their images. Since images are due by midnight on the Monday prior to
    Competition night, he'd get a flood of emails Monday evening asking
    what number to use.

    So, it's not a silly inclusion in the rules. It's there for a reason,
    and the reason is to make his job easier and provide a guide for
    people who want a guide.

    There were 110 images submitted for this week, but fewer than 110
    submitters. We are allowed to enter two images; each a different
    category. Some enter one, and some enter two.

    There were 78 members who registered and seven guests. That's
    under-average for most months, but not bad for August.

    Color management - We use a Canon projector, and it is color managed
    about four times a year. A photo is provided to show how far the
    projector is from the screen.

    The individual judges may or may not have color managed monitors.
    Since the judges are different each month, and this is a volunteer
    effort, the club can't demand what each judge does. He can't require
    that the monitor be color managed or that sRGB is used. Since they
    are all pros or very experienced amateurs, he has to assume that most
    do color manage their monitors.

    It's very difficult to round up three judges each month. It's asking
    non-members to put in several hours reviewing and grading images and
    attending a 2-hour meeting and staying after and answering questions.
    And, offering their opinions to people who may not agree with them.

    The images are sent electronically to each judge who then reviews and
    grades them on his/her monitor at home or at their office. This is
    done in the week before the meeting. All comments about the image are
    made based on what the judge sees on his/her monitor.

    The judges this week were a Orlando Sentinel(newspaper) Staff
    Photographer, a teacher of photography at a local college who also has
    a studio and does weddings and senior pictures, and a club member.
    (The other two were guests) The club member has won several awards in
    nature photography and has some photos in the Smithsonian.

    Screen appearance - I sat in the third row for a while, and moved to
    the back for part of the evening. I couldn't tell a difference
    between what I saw from close to far. I paid particular attention to
    looking at detail, and couldn't find any fault. In a photograph of a
    big cat (cheetah or leopard), the ear hair and whiskers were excellent
    as far as detail.

    I moved up to the front and peeked at the laptop the person who was
    calling out the names and scores used. The image was much better than
    seen on the screen, but I expected that.

    The room lighting was terrible. I took some pictures, and they will
    show the problem. There were gaps in the curtains and the curtains
    are sheer to begin with. The judging started at 7:00 and went on to
    8:30. It is still daylight here for most of that time.

    My black and white showed well on the screen, but my color image
    looked very washed out at the bottom. On my screen at home I can see
    the problem, but it was much more noticeable as a large image on the
    screen. I've included my two images in the photos linked to here.
    Critique if you choose to.

    Image size on screen - No image completely filled the screen, but due
    to the various ratios used, the images filled anywhere from a third of
    the screen on up.

    I tried to take photographs of the images on the screen to show this,
    but I didn't get any images that really will give you much of an idea.
    My compact Fuji just couldn't get a good photograph of the images on
    the screen. I think that's because of the material of a projection
    screen. It blows out that part of the image. I wouldn't want anyone
    to think that what I captured is like what we actually saw.

    Incidentally, earlier today I received an email from the President of
    the club asking me to attend the Board Meeting next Monday night.
    They'll be discussing any changes needed in the competition system and
    suggested future educational programs. I'm supposed to represent the
    general membership on these subjects. I do have some suggestions, but
    they don't pertain to the questions that have been asked in the

    This is a SmugMug gallery with photos and some comments with each.

    Now, please don't think the photos of the images on the screen
    represent at all what we see. That's a failure of my photographs.
    Tony Cooper, Aug 13, 2013
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  2. Tony Cooper

    Guest Guest

    that's the lamest excuse ever.
    that's a really dumb reason. he tells people to use a meaningless tag
    because he doesn't want email???

    instead of saying '72 dpi', he should say 'ignore the ppi tag, it
    doesn't matter what it is. whatever it's set to by your software is

    the end result is the same but people might learn something.
    by whom and how is it done?
    then they shouldn't be complaining about colour differences.
    fair assumption, but you said they frequently comment on the colour
    being different. if they're not profiled, then that's why.
    Guest, Aug 13, 2013
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  3. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    There's little wonder that you have difficulty in dealing with people
    or getting respect from people. Your position is to blow them off.

    Where have you ever seen a set of rules written that way? First of
    all, it brings attention to the ppi setting without providing
    information. Second, it's a dismissive instruction, and people don't
    respond well to dismissiveness.

    His version gives people who think they need to determine a ppi
    setting a number. People who know that the ppi setting is immaterial
    are going to ignore the instruction anyway.
    His function is not to teach people anything. His function is to
    facilitate the input of the photographs and the output to the judges.
    While people can submit images ahead of time, they normally wait until
    the last day or the last minute. Of a 100 images, you can pretty well
    guess that a large percentage of them come in between dinner time
    Monday and midnight. That's human nature. People wait to see if they
    come up with a better image or wait until they've done the best job
    they can in post.
    He does it. I didn't ask how. It wasn't my intent to quiz this guy
    on his job. You may be the type to get in his face and challenge how
    he does it, but I'm not about to brace a member doing a volunteer job
    about his technique. He's a professional photographer, and things
    have been working smoothly his way.
    What's this "shouldn't be"? Competition night is the first time
    they've seen an image on the large screen. It's natural to comment if
    it seems different than what they saw at home.
    Tony Cooper, Aug 13, 2013
  4. Tony Cooper

    Guest Guest

    so you're advocating ignoring the rules? didn't you say you had ethics
    when i said rules are made to be broken? now you say to go right ahead
    and break them. how funny.

    anyway, he is misleading people because he's lazy.

    it's just as easy to say 'the tag doesn't matter' as it is to say 'set
    it to 72', and the advantage of that is that people will learn
    procrastination has nothing to do with proper instructions. people are
    going to procrastinate no matter what.
    it 'shouldn't be' because the answer is staring them in the face. their
    monitors aren't calibrated. the colours are going to look different.

    if they wanted them to not look different, they could calibrate it.
    Guest, Aug 13, 2013
  5. Tony Cooper

    Tony Cooper Guest

    You don't read well, do you? I said that I submit my images at 1400
    on the longest side and at 72 ppi. I follow the rules. I do realize,
    though, that not everyone does. That's an observation, not a
    Tony Cooper, Aug 13, 2013
  6. Tony Cooper

    Guest Guest

    more accurately, you don't submit them at any ppi because they don't
    have any. all you do is set the tag to 72.
    Guest, Aug 13, 2013
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