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Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rodan, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. Rodan

    Keith nuttle Guest

    Battery technology is limited by the electromotive force of the atom.
    ie the potential to change the oxidation state of the molecule. So the
    problem becomes how many molecules do you need to provide the energy
    required. There will be no break through in battery technology that
    will significantly provide more energy per molecule.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromotive_force

    The only solution to personal transportation is nuclear energy, or
    something like it that has not been developed. Anything that depends on
    carbon fuels will increase the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
     
    Keith nuttle, Dec 30, 2008
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  2. Rodan

    -hh Guest

    Agreed & understood, although this is making some assumptions as to
    what the customer's primary 'benefit' objectives are.

    In this case, the reference to JP-8 should have been an adequate clue
    as to the customer paying for the research, and that CO2 reduction
    probably doesn't rank particularly high on the list. From open
    literature, we can find:

    <http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2006/September/Pages/
    Technologylimit2876.aspx>

    and one can also glean some additional insight from:

    <http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2006/September/Pages/
    hybridelectric2868.aspx>


    -hh
     
    -hh, Dec 30, 2008
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  3. Rodan

    J. Clarke Guest

    Google "fuel cell". You can lease a fuel cell car now, today, with
    280 mile range and when it's out of fuel you just pump in more like
    you do with gas. The difficulty is that there are only a few places
    where you can get the fuel right now.
     
    J. Clarke, Dec 30, 2008
  4. Rodan

    ASAAR Guest

    And I recall not replacing my NiCd AAs with NiMH until they
    reached 1,000mAh capacity. I recall some new "Green"? brand being
    highly recommended in an HP palmtop forum because they not only had
    a greater capacity (1,100 or 1,200mAh) but also had a lower
    self-discharge rate. Your electric car problem will be solved by
    the Hertz RentABatt corporation. You drive into their packyard
    where a pit crew swaps your battery with one of their own in 87
    seconds or less (or the use of their battery is free). You continue
    swapping along the trip in packyards that are nearly as ubiquitous
    as gas stations. When you return from your trip/vacation, you make
    the last swap at the original packyard, getting back your own,
    original battery, fully charged. It's safe too. Very few battery
    packs explode on the road. :)
     
    ASAAR, Dec 30, 2008
  5. Rodan

    ASAAR Guest

    Or you could move to one of the dreaded "socialist" countries
    which will have implemented your solution decades earlier.

    Class Warfare!!!
     
    ASAAR, Dec 30, 2008
  6. Rodan

    Keith nuttle Guest

    Weather it is yesterdays cars or todays cars, if the car is in tune, the
    CO2 emissions will be the same for a gallon of gas burned. It is a
    simple chemical oxidation of carbon (gasoline) to Carbon Dioxide. If
    the motor is out of tune you will get other carbon oxides like carbon
    monoxide, but still in a chemically balanced equation.
     
    Keith nuttle, Dec 30, 2008
  7. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    You expecting to die in the next decade?
     
    Chris H, Dec 30, 2008
  8. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    Japan and Germany?

    Neither are Socialist.
     
    Chris H, Dec 30, 2008
  9. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    Quite true. However where there is a demand some one will fill that
    demand.
     
    Chris H, Dec 30, 2008
  10. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    Who is "we" I think you will find those with the reserves will fix the
    price to those who do not.
     
    Chris H, Dec 30, 2008
  11. And there's still the problem of where you'll get the electricity to run all
    those electric cars. Nuclear? Many cons, but good to burn up surplus
    plutonium from nukes. Wind?Even in the best case scenario, not larger that a
    10% penetration in a grid, and when the wind does not blow?Solar? At night,
    what? Fossil? And even if we solve the car issue, what are we going to do
    with trucks, buses, railway locomotives, ships and planes, run them all on
    hydrogen or on batteries, too? (A ship has, maybe, a 25,000 HP diesel that
    runs on mazut. A locomotive has at least a 2850 HP two-stroke diesel. A
    boeing 747 needs a gallon of Kerozine a second. A 300 MW brown coal plant
    needs 400 tons of coal an hour. A small passenger ship, for the trip
    Iraklion-Pireus (the harbor of Athens) needed 60 tons of mazut. An 11 MW
    15,000 HP two-stroke diesel used for electricity generation needs 13 tons of
    mazut an hour.)


    Just my 2 cents...
     
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Dec 30, 2008
  12. In Denmark wind energy already supplies 20% of the electricity for the
    whole country.
    In other areas e.g. Ostfriesland-Papenburg (granted, those are special
    cases) wind energy contributed 71% in 2005.
    It does blow always --- somewhere on this planet. It's more a matter of
    distribution than of availability.
    Again, the sun is shining 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. It's more a
    question of how to transport the energy over lang distances. And current
    third world countries have an abundance of sun which they could market
    if there was a distribution system.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Dec 30, 2008
  13. Rodan

    J. Clarke Guest

    This is the same kind of wishful thinking that cold fusion advocates
    engage in.

    You really thing that Obama's going to put incentives in place to do
    this rather than just "studying the problem" for however long he's in?
     
    J. Clarke, Dec 30, 2008
  14. Rodan

    J. Clarke Guest

    Works fine. Long track record. Only cons are the econuts who file
    lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit.
    Same fuel cells that work with cars will work fine with trucks and
    buses. Even if they don't, internal combustion, diesel, and turbine
    engines run fine on hydrogen.
    Fuel cell electric trains should work as well as diesel-electric, or
    run the diesels on hydrogen, or electrify the tracks--electric trains
    have been in widespread use for more than a century.
    For ships, nuclear for any large enough to justify it (there's a
    minimum size below which nuclear power becomes impractical). Hydrogen
    for smaller ones.
    That same one has at least 2850 HP in electric motors that don't
    really care where the electricity comes from. The TGV has 12,000
    horsepower and no diesel.
    A Space Shuttle needs 815 gallons of hydrogen a second. So what?
    A 300 MW nuclear plant needs a truckload of uranium every 10 years or
    so.
    Whatever "mazut" is. Same engine should run fine on hydrogen with
    suitable mods.
    Very small scale generation there you know. Put whatever it drives on
    the grid and run it off the base-load nuclear plants. Or just use
    hydrogen and a fuel cell--with the efficiency of hydrogen fuel cells
    the consumption should be significantly lower in mass, although maybe
    higher in volume.
     
    J. Clarke, Dec 30, 2008
  15. Rodan

    ASAAR Guest

    What are you, some kind of radical commie symp. pinko? I guess
    that you and your kind weren't raised countries whose schools
    required the daily recitation of loyalty oaths, such as our
    patriotic "Pledge of Allegiance".

    Many politicians in this country thrive on portraying the world as
    being divided into three groups. Us, the USA (good, democratic,
    free, moral, Christian, law-abiding, the best possible place to be,
    with liberty and justice for all), Evil-Doers (N.Korea, Cuba,
    Venezuela, possibly Peru, most middle eastern countries, and
    sometimes Russia & China) and the Socialists, comprising practically
    every other country capable of having their own currency, especially
    if they're members of the United Nations or if they have a better
    universal health care system than us or pay higher taxes, including
    Japan, Germany, France (grrrr), Great Britain, Canada, et. al. Why,
    half of our politicians are slimy socialist (liberals, Democrats),
    and many of our Republicans have been dedicated for many decades to
    eradicating all traces of the socialism introduced by the traitorous
    Franklin D. Roosevelt's Social Security system.

    They are truly aggrieved that Der Bush's early attempts to
    undermine Social Security by replacing much of it with individual
    participation in Wall Street's shell game, failed miserably.
     
    ASAAR, Dec 30, 2008
  16. Rodan

    ASAAR Guest

    I think that T.D. answered similar questions a couple of years ago
    here, where it was described as a heavy low grade fuel oil. It may
    have been in one of the threads about breached tankers. Or not.
     
    ASAAR, Dec 30, 2008
  17. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    Obama has nothing to do with it. The rest of the world is going the way
    of "green" transport. The Europeans and Japanese are well along the
    road.

    Where does the US think it is going to sell it's cars when there is no
    overseas market? The new regulations for Europe are already un-meetable
    for US vehicles.

    The next US president will have to fit in with the rest of the world
    and will not be in a position to dictate. That is largely due to the
    actions of GWB over the last 8 years.
     
    Chris H, Dec 31, 2008
  18. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    You missed "gay", "Arab loving", and "not a Real Man(tm)"
    Countries like Korea, China, Cuba?

    Loved the rest of it.
     
    Chris H, Dec 31, 2008
  19. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    Honda. California.
    It was the Socialist UK that supported the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Nothing to do with me,. GM, Chrysler and Ford are doing things your way
    which is why they are in the mess they are in,.
     
    Chris H, Dec 31, 2008
  20. Rodan

    Chris H Guest

    Chris H, Dec 31, 2008
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