Calumet files Chapter 7

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Usenet Account, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    no, i want to not pay more than i need to and the cost of having a
    store does not matter, except to the storekeeper. that's standard
    stuff, but apparently well beyond your limited ability to think.
    wrong. stores can charge whatever they want and consumers can choose to
    pay or not pay it. most are choosing to not pay it, and spend their
    hard earned money elsewhere.
    more of your idiocy. i don't shill for anyone and adobe doesn't gouge
    anyone anyway. they make top quality products, and some are the best
    products in the industry (other than flash which is crap that they
    acquired and are stuck with).
    if only that were true. knowledgeable sales staff is rare. i have no
    problem supporting stores where staff knows stuff, but that isn't often
    the case, even in dedicated stores.
    that part is true.
    not really.
    so what? order it online and be done with it.
    it's easier to drive to the post office than back to the store, and the
    line is probably going to be shorter at the post office than the return
    why? the humans are not guaranteed to know anything.
    not always. learn how to shop. some stuff is competitive and other
    stuff is not. no single store will have the best prices on all
    in your world, all stores do that.
    where did you read that? and the insurance companies have to get the
    medical records so that the pharmacy can get paid for the drugs.
    they're more competitive than the local stores which is why the local
    stores are gone. that's just the way the system works. had the local
    stores offered what the customers wanted, they'd still be around. a few
    are but overall, not very many.
    that's what competition *is*.

    cvs and walgreens are providing what people want and the other stores
    are not.
    who needs handholding at cvs? are you that stupid that you can't figure
    out which shampoo to buy?
    Guest, Apr 3, 2014
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  2. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    ironic. you respond to what i didn't say all the time.
    nobody said otherwise.
    all a company can do is put the information out there and make it easy
    to find and understand. some customers will read and use it while
    others won't.
    it's reality.
    so what
    half of $30 is $15, which is close enough to $17 to be considered half.
    yes it's a little roundoff. if you prefer, 0.57.

    and you snipped the $200 difference on a nikon slr. that's a chunk of
    change that can pay for a flash or other accessory, or even a lens.
    i didn't need it 'today' and the product was not a knockoff. it was
    *identical*, a genuine lowepro case.

    in some cases, a knockoff product is perfectly adequate.
    i never said buying in a store was wrong.

    what i said was buying online is less expensive and more convenient in
    nearly every case. on occasion, a store can be cheaper but that's rare.

    sometimes having it immediately is required, so you don't have a
    choice, but the number of times that a store is the only option is not
    common enough for many stores to stay in business.
    do you really think that rig was right for him? he spent way more than
    he needed to spend and won't ever take advantage of what he has. he has
    more money than brains and the store loves people like that.
    Guest, Apr 3, 2014
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  3. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    he may not always realize he's wrong.
    he's just stupid.
    Guest, Apr 3, 2014
  4. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    that step applies to any purchase, whether it's online or in a store.
    stores charge sales tax plus there's fuel costs to get to the store and
    sometimes parking charges, depending on the location of the store.

    technically one should pay use tax in lieu of sales tax but almost
    nobody does that.
    Guest, Apr 3, 2014
  5. Usenet Account

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Yes. What is "right" for a person is the product that suits the
    person's perceived needs and desires. What their *real* needs are is
    immaterial. If he thinks he has what he needs, that's "right" enough.
    True, but so what? The same is true of some people who buy high-end
    expensive Macs and Adobe Photoshop (full version), but you don't seem
    to object to that. What online retailer stops orders to ask the buyer
    if he's sure that he needs this product or if he could use a less
    expensive one? Would B&H?
    True, but if he would have gone to an online retailer like B&H, he
    would have got the same package. B&H would love him.
    Tony Cooper, Apr 3, 2014
  6. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    nope. he may want all of that and if he has cash burning a hole in his
    pocket then he can buy it just for fun, but his needs are nowhere near
    justifying any of it. an honest store would tell him he could put his
    money to better use.
    i do when it's overkill.

    someone taking photos to post on facebook doesn't need a 12 core mac
    pro with photoshop cs/cc.
    they don't stop orders but as i said in another post, there are wizards
    to help you choose the right product for your needs and some have
    online chat where you can ask questions and many have online reviews.
    you can always call and talk to someone for further guidance.

    there is *plenty* of information available, much more than what you can
    use than while standing in a store with a salesperson trying to close a
    sale so that he gets his commission.
    and you see no problem with stores taking full advantage of his
    Guest, Apr 3, 2014
  7. Usenet Account

    Tony Cooper Guest

    You don't understand the word "perceived"? Why do people drive a
    Lexus, wear a Rolex, or buy $100 neckties? As a consumer, we have the
    right and the ability to purchase what we perceive we need. That's a
    free economy, and the way it should be.

    An "honest" salesperson may choose to discuss lower-priced
    alternatives, but they have no cause to discourage the buyer from
    buying what they want.

    When I bought my iPad, no one at the Apple store tried to tell me that
    an $89 tablet would be a better buy for my needs. I would not expect
    them to, and I would not want them to. In fact, the sales person
    tried to convince me that I needed the larger iPad and more gigs. I
    expect that, and don't object to it. Same with my iPhone. The sales
    person tried to talk me into more expensive data plan that I need.

    No store clerk has the obligation to tell a consumer that they should
    not buy what they want to buy because it more than they need. If
    asked if a lower-priced unit would suffice, they should present what
    alternatives are available, but if not asked, they should ring it up.

    That's for them to decide. Perceived need is completely different
    from real need.
    That's only available to the customer who avails themselves of it. You
    have to seek it out. The customer who just places an order gets what
    he orders whether or not he needs that level of product.
    But, according to your best buddy, that doesn't make for a "smooth"

    Well, he has to have *some* brains to make the kind of income that
    allows him to pay $2,000 for a camera without blinking an eye. And,
    as I said, any online retailer - including B&H - would accept his
    order without asking him if he needed that much camera.
    No, I don't. Not when the customer makes no effort to explore
    alternatives. The father who I was referring to had ample opportunity
    to ask me what camera to buy, for any suggestions, or for any
    information about sources of information. He decided to buy a camera
    after seeing my shots of the baseball games, and I'm currently
    shooting a D300 that I bought used from Keh. He just showed up with
    his new camera one day.

    I don't even think he understands that a comparable camera to what I
    use could be obtained for less than half of what he spent. He thinks
    because I take good photographs, that I have a top-end camera.

    I would consider it rude, very rude, to tell him he over-bought.
    Unlike you, I don't try to impose my opinions on others. I'll respond
    if asked, but I don't tell people what they should want.
    Tony Cooper, Apr 3, 2014
  8. Usenet Account

    Sandman Guest

    Which is irrelevant to the subject of whether or not the buying experience
    is smooth.
    I can not answer for things that exists only in your mind. I don't think
    the things you claim I think.
    Don't you ever stop to think whether or not you should check up on things
    before making claims?

    "Free Shipping (USA)"

    See why you have no credibility and why every claim you make is met with
    No, the one that doesn't.
    Sandman, Apr 3, 2014
  9. Usenet Account

    Sandman Guest

    Someone buying a Rolex doesn't do it because he needs it or "percieves" he
    needs it, it's because he wants it, and it's a status symbol. It's easy to
    discern the difference - because purchases you make that you *need* may
    also be things you do not *want*.
    That's only because the Apple Store is not a reseller of tablets, they're a
    store that sells only Apple tablets. Last time I was in an Apple Store I
    had some specific needs for a iPad dock, and instead of trying to push
    their own brand, the sales person presented many different brands in many
    different price ranges.
    No it's not. They do not *need* it to accomplish those tasks, that's a
    plain fact.
    Only because it is based on ignorance. Hence, they don't need it. I have no
    idea why you're adding the "Percieved" qualifier to nospam's comments, why
    not reply to what he says instead of what doesn't say?
    Just as in a store.
    Most times you don't. Reviews are displayed alongside the product, some
    sites will popup a question if you linger on a page for a while, asking if
    you need help deciding.
    Very insightful.
    I'll give you one million dollar if you can quote me saying that.
    Of course. They won't question a customers purchase. But if said customer
    walks in to the store and starts handling a $2,000 camera and a sales
    person asks him if he wants help and he says yes, the sales person might
    very well ask him what his needs are and enlighten the customer on what
    product may fit him the best. The reason isn't to make him buy something
    cheaper, but in order to make the customer happy and pleased with both the
    product and the buying experience and support.
    Sandman, Apr 3, 2014
  10. Usenet Account

    Tony Cooper Guest

    It's free if you are willing to wait for two weeks of calendar days.
    UPS is not free.
    Tony Cooper, Apr 3, 2014
  11. Usenet Account

    Sandman Guest

    I.e. you were wrong and made a claim without checking the facts beforehand.
    When are you ever going to learn?
    Sandman, Apr 3, 2014
  12. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest


    b&h states that free shipping is up to 7 days, which for those who
    failed math, is *one* week, not two.

    depending on where you live and what you ordered, it will likely be
    quicker than that (thus the words 'up to'). those close to new york
    will likely get it in a couple of days. for free.
    Guest, Apr 3, 2014
  13. Usenet Account

    Tony Cooper Guest

    What, then, do you think "perceives" means? A perceived need is
    simply a need we think we have, and that equates to a want; we want it
    because we think we need it.
    Oh, then, your defense of nospam's contention is that a store will
    only tell you need something less expensive because they don't think
    you need the expensive item *if* they also carry less expensive items?
    Who decides, in your mind, what the customer needs or should buy? The
    sales clerk?

    What was that thing you bought? The kickstart thing? The funny lens?
    Did you have a real need for it? Or, was it a perceived need?
    So you bought a lens out of ignorance?
    If he ignores a salient point, then it's quite reasonable to bring it

    Yes. That was my point.
    I guess you meant something entirely different when you said: "Many
    people do - that doesn't make it a smooth buyer experience, just like
    I said. It's an added step you have to add before you go to the

    That is your quote? The one with the added step that has to be added?
    I can't imagine anyone else writing that.
    Nice of you to come to nospam's assistance even though I wasn't - as
    you say - "talk to you". Is that a "haha" or a "ironic"?
    Tony Cooper, Apr 3, 2014
  14. Usenet Account

    Sandman Guest

    Man, you've totally lost it. We do not *want* things because we *think* we
    need them. We don't *want* things because we *need* them either. If we're
    lucky, we may very well want the smae things that are also needed, but the
    words are not synonymous.

    You may think you need a black tie for the wedding, so you buy one. You
    never wanted a black tie, however.

    You may think you need a 85mm lens to shoot portraits, so you buy one.
    Luckily, you *also* wanted one for other reasons.

    You need an external harddrive in order to properly make backups, but you
    don't want one on your desk taking up place.

    You need a fast car to participate in saturday racing events, luckily, you
    also want a fast car since you enjoy driving quickly.

    See how need - percieved or not - has NOTHING to do with what you want and
    it can correlate or not depending on the situation. They are two different
    words that mean two different things, regardless if you put "percieved" in
    front of one of them.
    Non sequitur.
    I think a more pressing question is - who will teach you what the word
    "need" means? Apparently you're saying that someone taking photos to post
    to facebook needs a 12 core Mac Pro and Photoshop CC. I'm assumign you
    either have a 12 core Mac Pro and PS/CC or you've never posted an image to

    If a customer walks in to the store saying that he needs to buy a $10,000
    12 core Mac Pro to post images to Facebook, then he is flat out wrong.
    The Petzval. There was no need, "percieved" or not. Only a desire for the
    effect of the lens. There was no requirement (=need) for that lens for me.
    Only if I had ever said I needed it. Which of course I didn't. I bought it
    because I wanted it, not because I needed it.
    But why not respond to what he writes instead of what he doesn't write?
    You're ignoring what he writes, and then you're adding something that he
    didn't write talk about that instead - why are you ignoring the salient
    point nospam already made?
    I meant what I wrote, which as you can see didn't correlate to what you
    claimed I wrote. See why you have no credibility yet?
    Sandman, Apr 3, 2014
  15. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    why would a store tell you you need something they don't sell? then you
    will go buy somewhere else.

    obviously if you walk into an apple store and ask if they have a
    microsoft surface they'll say we don't carry that and tell you to go
    elsewhere, but if you say you need a tablet or phone they'll try to
    sell you an ipad or iphone, because that's what they sell.

    they're not going to say 'based on what you've said you would be better
    off with a surface tablet or android phone'.
    Guest, Apr 4, 2014
  16. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    and that was not available at his stores, just like i said. they didn't
    care about the extra stuff. that's why his store and many other stores
    are no more.
    Guest, Apr 4, 2014
  17. Usenet Account

    Guest Guest

    same thing in this case. the stores compete with non-apple stores
    selling non-apple products (and even apple products).
    nonsense. of course there is.
    Guest, Apr 4, 2014
  18. Usenet Account

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Read the site. "Up to 7 business days". "Business days" are Monday
    through Friday even though the post office delivers on Saturday, but
    B&H doesn't ship after noon on Friday and they are closed on Saturday.
    I gave you a clue with "calendar days" above. B&H is owned by
    Orthodox Jews and they close on Friday at 2 PM and re-open at 10 AM on
    Sunday. They are also closed on certain Jewish holidays.

    The orders I've placed with B&H come in about 10 (calendar) days to 2
    weeks depending on the day of the week I place the order. Part of
    what to expect depends on how the post office routes packages to the
    place you live.

    Overall, I've been very pleased with B&H shipping, but that's because
    I know what to expect. B&H is not the only online retailer, though,
    and two week delivery from some is better than you can expect.

    While you would think that orders to people who live close to NYC come
    faster when mailed, that's not always the case. It depends on how the
    post office routes their mail. It's not beyond the post office to
    route a package through Atlanta or Jacksonville and then back north.

    But, then, you live in Sweden and know all about US business hours and
    the post office practices.
    Tony Cooper, Apr 4, 2014
  19. Usenet Account

    PeterN Guest

    So says the one who complains about butting into a conversation.
    PeterN, Apr 4, 2014
  20. Usenet Account

    Tony Cooper Guest

    You are so far off track here that there's no possibility at all of
    getting you to understand. Perceived needs and perceived values have
    been established terms almost forever. Well, "forever" in the history
    of studying human behavior. I was reading case studies on this when I
    getting my MBA from Northwestern University.
    I don't have a Mac, and I've never posted to Facebook. However,
    anyone can convince themselves that they need a particular item
    regardless of whether or not they actually do need it. That's
    perceived need. The perception is in the mind of the person.
    You didn't need to say it. You convinced yourself that you needed to
    have it, though. You created a perceived need. "Want" and "need" are
    not synonymous words, but how we justify our "wants" by convincing
    ourselves that they are "needs" is well understood by marketers.
    Oh, God. Another misunderstood word: "correlate". Of course it
    correlates. My version and your version are two complementary

    Correlate (verb) having a mutual relationships or connection.

    Nothing in that definition that requires an exact replication.
    Tony Cooper, Apr 4, 2014
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