Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. JC Allison wrote:
    The following is the system to which I want to add the two IDE HDDs.

    Panasonic AG-DVC10P Proline 3 CCD CamCorder w/IEEE1394
    IW-Q500N-ATX FullTower
    Tyan Trinity i845-S2090 ATX Mainboard w/Intel i845 Chipset
    Single Pentium IV 1.8GHz Processor
    1.5 Gb SDRAM (3 512 Mb DIMMs) Upgraded to 3 Gb - (3 1Gb DIMMs)
    Matrox G450 Millennium Dual-Head Graphics Card
    Matrox RT2500 Video Capture Card
    Creative Technoloby Ltd., Audigy MP3+ Sound Card
    36 Gb Seagate Cheetah SCSI 10K RPM Hard Drive (System Drive)
    36 Gb Seagate Cheetah SCSI 10K RPM Hard Drive (A/V Editing)
    120 Gb Western Digital IDE 7.2K RPM Hard Drive (Capture Storage)
    120 Gb Western Digital IDE 7.2K RPM Hard Drive (Master Edit Storage)
    Dual Adaptec 2940 SCSI Cards
    Two 19" IDP Monitors
    Sony CD-ROM
    1.44 Mb Diskette Drive
    Digital KB 5923REV-B01 106-key KeyBoard
    Genius EasyMouse+ PS2
    Supra Express 56K External Modem
    PK Electronics 500VA Blackout Buster UPS
    Windows 2000 Professional w/ Service Pack 2
    Adobe Premiere 6.0
    Realtime Effects
    Matrox Video for Windows AVI Files
    Matrox Media Tools
    Inscriber Title Express
    Sonic Foundry ACID Music
    Sonic Solutions DVDit! LE
    Acronis Partition Expert 2003
    Acronis True Image
    Symantec's Norton A/V
    Symantec's Norton Internet Security
    All attendant cables, wires, and boxes.

    Note, the two 120 Gb WD HDDs are Removable Media, and they are the ones that
    present the problem.

    As far as I know, they are hooked up, and are just not being seen because
    they have not been partitioned, nor formatted.

    So the question becomes, how do I get the computer to recognize the two IDE
    HDDs in order to either FDISK them from DOS, or if possible from Win2K Pro
    using Acronis Partition Expert.

    Any step by step instructions would be greatly appreciated.
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 22, 2003
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  2. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    Night_Seer Guest

    So they are not seen at the startup info? or just not in windows? If
    its only in windows, go to start/administrative tools/computer managment or
    disk management or some such thing and look for disk management, then you
    have to initialize the drives and then partition and format (you can do this
    within windows, don't need to use fdisk.)
    Night_Seer, Oct 22, 2003
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  3. JC Allison:
    I have watched this carefully, and as far as I can tell, they are not seen
    at startup.

    Nor in Win2K Pro.

    I looked at Disk Management, but could find no initializing of the drives.

    They may not be enabled at start-up, what ever THAT means... How would I
    check to see?
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 23, 2003
  4. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    Night_Seer Guest

    Where are these two drives connected? To the onboard IDE, or to a seperate
    PCI card? The only place I know to check is in bios.
    Night_Seer, Oct 23, 2003
  5. I've seen a couple of BIOS's lately that have vacant HD slots set to
    'None'. Presumably this is to speed bootup (if it's set to Auto then it
    wastes time checking for an HD that isn't there-and one even reported an
    error when it didn't find it). If it's set to None in BIOS then it
    doesn't look for it & probably won't recognize it.

    Check the BIOS settings. Until it's recognized by the BIOS (with a
    caveat for systems that have 'add-in' BIOS's on 'intelligent' IDE
    controller cards) you can't partitiion & format it in Windows. Any version.
    Calvin Crumrine, Oct 23, 2003
  6. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    desperado Guest

    first off, i think so many drives are overkill...are you raiding any of
    these drives? or are they all chained m/s?
    this can happen when u have alot of drives.....and when u go to admin
    tools/disk manage.....if you don't see it, u can't format it.....once u see
    the drives, it's diff....start unplugging the drives, and add one at a
    time....if you can, raid the 2 120's for storage, remove one scsi...lower
    the much juice in ur ps?
    desperado, Oct 23, 2003
  7. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    What do you mean by removable media? Are they in a drive bay? Or a
    USB/firewire kind of removable media? If the latter, you may need drivers
    for 2000 to recognize them (long shot). If the former, you need to check
    all the connections and even try hooking the drives up without the
    removable bays and see if they are detected or not.

    AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
    email: [email protected] (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
    DeMoN LaG, Oct 23, 2003
  8. JC Allison:
    I don't know. They came installed with the removable trays which contained
    the 120 gig IDE HDDs. And I was told that I would have to partition, and
    format them.

    Again, I don't know...

    Alright. I did some research on how to access a look at the bios which was
    by doing a <cntrl+alt+esc> and some other ways... I hesitate to do omuch of
    that because I don't feel comfortable/confident without having a pretty good
    idea about that with which I am messing, and what to expect in the way of
    things that need to be done.

    But I did do an F8 and got offered to start Win2K in SAFE mode...

    And during boot, I did do a <DEL> and got to look at the CMOS lists... No
    where did I see any reference to any HDD or IDE hardware that would lead me
    to believe that the computer is aware of the presence of these two HDDs.

    So my next step is to call the guy who built the computer and see what he
    has to say about the situation. So far, all the instructions have been
    predicated on the apriori assumption that the computer was aware of the two
    IDE HDDs.

    It's always something... (Rosanna Dannadanna)
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 23, 2003
  9. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    Night_Seer Guest

    SO the two drives that you can't see are in removable trays...could be a
    problem with tha connection. This is something your going to have to open
    up the box for, so either take it to the guy who built it or start learning.
    Night_Seer, Oct 23, 2003
  10. JC Allison:
    C: Drive is for the System. (SCSI)
    D: Drive is for data, and in this case, this is a DTV system. (SCSI)
    E: Drive is for raw Video in (IDE)
    F: Drive is for finished Master edits. (IDE)

    What is "all chained m/s"?

    I'll give this a try.

    Actually, the system works great for DTV, it's just that I'd like to have
    the storage that the IDE HDDs make available.

    And I don't recall the PS, but it is ample and sufficient.

    Anyway, thanks for the reply. I love this kind of education.
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 23, 2003
  11. M/S probably means Master/Slave. All & Chained seem redundant. Since M/S
    doesn't apply to SCSI you only have 2 drives that could be in a M/S
    relationship. If you have a M/S relationship therefore, by definition,
    *all* your drives (that could be) are in that relationship. (D could be
    asking you to check-if both drives are set M, or both set S, or one set
    as M or S & the other set as Cable Select (CS) then that could be
    causing your problem. They should either both be set as CS or both be
    set as M & be on separate cables/controllers, or one should be set as M
    & the other as S if they're on the same cable/controller, i.e. chained.)

    This probably isn't clear because we're talking about what's possible.
    What you need to do is specify how you have them set up. Are they on the
    same cable/controller? How are they jumpered?
    Calvin Crumrine, Oct 23, 2003
  12. BIOS & CMOS Setup are essentially the same thing. If you're not
    comfortable accessing it then don't-take it to a tech. Accessing it
    isn't difficult IMO, but I've done it so often I might be blind to your
    fears. The one thing I do know though is that if you're afraid (call it
    uncertain-less stigma attached to that although I don't know why) then
    you probably shouldn't do it-at least not without supervision. If
    possible, find a tech that will walk you thru it explaining what you're
    doing. After that you should be less uncomfortable doing it yourself,
    assuming you need to do anything similar in the future.
    Calvin Crumrine, Oct 23, 2003
  13. JC Allison:
    Well, I got into CMOS, but found nothing that made any reference to the two
    120 gig IDE HDDs.

    blind to your fears.

    I've noticed a certain blaise'-ness that comes with experience. Things that
    take a great deal of concentration to do, get done quicky, deftly,
    approaching carelessness... And all the stuff like touching the frame for
    grounding, and watching out for screw drivers that were magnetic... either
    is done second-naturedly, or ignored totally.

    Actually, I am capable of messing with the stuff, and I've done a bit of it
    before, but it has been some time ago, and I think that what is happening is
    that it is like bike riding...

    And that in fact is what I am getting ready to do. And it has been by the
    kind responses to my posts that I am finding the "other" factors that need
    to be explored and known, and that information will be gathered. During the
    gathering of info, other salient factors become apparent, and the education
    afforded by delving into those becomes part of the process, and it seems
    that the more one finds the more one needs to find. Like my friend said:
    "Nothing is easy anymore!"

    I think there is another post to which I have answers to diagnostic
    questions, and so will give some information about the system there. And I
    have some direct questions. I'm capable of dealing with the system, I just
    need to know what I need to do to communicate with it on this matter.

    Anyway Calvin, thanks for taking the time to deal with this in this manner.
    I appreciate your effort.
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 24, 2003
  14. JC Allison:
    There is a ribbon cable from one of the onboard IDE connectors on the Tyan
    Trinity i845 Mainboard to the IDE HDD tray. There was another ribbon cable
    from the other onboard IDE connector to the other IDE HDD tray, and then on
    to the CD.

    And what is it that I am checking for? Calvin says that if I can get into
    and navigate around in CMOS that I have a chance here... Well, I am
    comfortable with that right now.


    Alright, I opened up the box, and I am comfortable with this. With the box
    open, the connections were as described above with regard to the ribbon
    cables, and also the power cables were in place. But just for starters, the
    power light on the IDE HDD tray which is on the front of the computer
    doesn't come on. So I wonder if there is a switch that needs to be set, or
    enabled to supply power to the IDE HDD tray, and thus to the HDD when it is
    in place.

    Anyway Night Seer... the process continues apace.. Thanks for taking the
    time and making the effort to help.
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 24, 2003
  15. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    It is possible that the drives are just sitting inside the trays, and not
    actually plugged in to the internal IDE and power cables. Can you remove
    the trays and check that?

    AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
    email: [email protected] (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
    DeMoN LaG, Oct 24, 2003
  16. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    Night_Seer Guest

    That's what I am thinking...there is some problem between the trays and
    the IDE connection..maybe bent pins or like you said a switch. Do these
    trays require power, and are they getting it. Are the hard drives getting
    power? You mentioned there were ribbon cables connected, but are the power
    cables connected as well? There should be no less than 2 cables connected
    to the back of the HDD.
    Night_Seer, Oct 24, 2003
  17. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    There should be two connections going to each removable bay (inside the
    case). One IDE ribbon cable, one 4 pin power cable. If you remove the
    trays from the removable bays, and open them to see the hard drives inside,
    there should be a ribbon cable and power cable running from the back of the
    tray to the hard drive inside.

    AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
    email: [email protected] (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
    DeMoN LaG, Oct 24, 2003
  18. JC Allison:
    I have just taken each Hard Disk Drive out of the "slide-in-tray". I
    disconnected both of the ribbon connector, and the power connector, that is
    fastened to the slide in tray, from their proper inputs into the HDD unit.
    There were no bent pins, and everything fit back together perfectly. I then
    returned the HDD to the slide-in-tray, fastened it down, and replaced the
    lid. I then placed them back into the bays in the tower and locked them down
    with the mounting handles on the front of each unit.

    I have had the side off of the box, and have removed and then reinstalled
    the power connectior to each of the receiving bays into which the
    slide-in-tray fits, and in so doing, supposedly establishes all the
    connections that it requires to power up and function.

    The HDDs are electronically connected to the computer by two means. There
    are, on the mainboard, two IDE connectors. There is a ribbon cable coming
    from each of them to the 120 gig HDDs. And the ribbon cable that goes to the
    top 120 gig HDD, THEN continues on to the CD Drive.

    I see info on CMOS that under the IDE controller setup, there is a Primary
    Master&Slave, and a Secondary Master&Slave. The CD is listed as the Primary
    Slave, but the other three are listed as <none>

    The computer needs to be told (how ever it is done) that the Primary Master
    is a 120 gig WD IDE HDD, and that the Secondary Master is another 120 gig WD
    IDE HDD.

    Now in the CMOS there is this same listing, and when I try to tell it to do
    that, it looks for a HDD, but the notice stays but a second or so, and then
    is gone, without anything happening or changing. What's with that?

    Anyway, I am certain that it is all hooked up properly. That all the cables
    are coming from and going to all the appropriate places, though I have not
    checked the power cables to see if they indeed are "hot" when the computer
    is running.

    I've seen bandied about the judicious use of a paper clip, about which much
    has been said both pro and con for this rather dubious practice. But seeing
    as to how I have a multi-tester or two here, and know how to use them if I
    just knew which probe to put into which of the four holes in the fitting.
    And I could probably "experiment", but I'm not sure that I couldn't mess
    something up, so I haven't done any probing yet. Better safe than sorry...

    But let's say that I have power to the fitting, and the fitting is connected
    to the bay, and the electricity is now going into fitting that is connected
    to the HDD itself. Is there a standard way to check to see if the HDD is a
    functioning unit?

    I remember some time ago when I was deciding on this setup, that the term
    "hot-swap" was bandied about as a feature that permitted one to be working
    with one HDD, and it could be removed, and another one inserted without
    having to shut down the system. But now I am getting intimations that such
    hot swapping can "blow the drive"... And no matter what the cause, what I
    need to know is what is wrong with all this, and why won't it work?

    So the question came to me... What if I were just now installing this set
    up? What would I do after it is all connected to make it go? Isn't Windows
    supposed to "detect" this new hardware?

    Anyway, onward through the fog...

    The second way they are connected is through four pin power connectors
    coming from the Power Supply.
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 24, 2003
  19. ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~

    derek / nul Guest

    As well as the locking handle, mine have a switch beside the locking handle,
    this must either be slid sideways or turned with a key depending on the type.

    derek / nul, Oct 24, 2003
  20. JC Allison:
    Exactly so!. BUT this is not to say that inside the back of the BAY is
    alright. And I see that I need to remove one of the BAYS to see how the
    slide-in-tray connects there... It is a slide in arrangement, that is made
    by the using of a "handle" on the front of the slide-in-tray which "fulcrum
    lock" the unit into place. And there is a "KEY arrangment that is supposed
    to "lock" the unit into the machine, but it doesn't work.

    I am going to open up the tower again, and remove one of the BAYS to see
    what the arrangement is inside it where the slide-in-tray connects.

    Thanks for the responses... I feel that we are hot on the trail...
    ~~~AllisonWonderland~~~, Oct 24, 2003
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